In Recovery- Successful Ablation I couldn't be more pleased. My heart sufficiently misbehaved today to allow for a really successful mapping of the PACs and SVT. My Pre-Ablation EKG caught the SVT and ectopics and also showed a new prolonged QtC, right axis deviation, and some other changes from the high burden of ectopics over time. He ablated the area at the right pulmonary vein. He felt super happy and feels confident that there will be success. Interestingly, he also said that my heart looked super healthy and that the strength of my heart/health of my heart is probably the only thing that prevented the ectopics from kicking me into Afib. He said most of the time, the ectopics in that area would cause paroxysmal afib. I'll be discharged on Ivabradine to help my heart rate stay low while it heals and help if I get IST. But for now, it seems like a win!! Thanks so much for the prayers and support. Will continue to update! https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197693#msg-197693 Fri, 01 May 2026 14:22:05 +0000 Phorum 5.2.23 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197887#msg-197887 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197887#msg-197887 TomR AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 14 Nov 2024 06:46:41 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197833#msg-197833 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197833#msg-197833 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 07 Nov 2024 10:02:37 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197830#msg-197830 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197830#msg-197830 kliving AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 06 Nov 2024 19:01:08 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197818#msg-197818 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197818#msg-197818 gloaming AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 06 Nov 2024 05:01:08 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197817#msg-197817 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197817#msg-197817 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:33:24 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197816#msg-197816 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197816#msg-197816 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:28:14 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197815#msg-197815 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197815#msg-197815 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:09:11 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197798#msg-197798 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197798#msg-197798
Quote
MeganMN
For those of you that experienced post procedure migraines, how long did they persist? Short term or long term?

My headaches lasted about 2 months. I didn't get them every day and when I did I took paracetamol.
It's quite rare, only about 2% get them, although this number could be much higher as not many people report them. I didn't.]]> colindo AFIBBERS FORUM Mon, 04 Nov 2024 16:30:07 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197777#msg-197777 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197777#msg-197777 kliving AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 03 Nov 2024 22:46:46 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197776#msg-197776 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197776#msg-197776 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 03 Nov 2024 20:24:09 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197773#msg-197773 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197773#msg-197773 kliving AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 03 Nov 2024 17:25:09 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197763#msg-197763 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197763#msg-197763 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 03 Nov 2024 04:59:41 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197762#msg-197762 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197762#msg-197762
Quote
MeganMN
For those of you that experienced post procedure migraines, how long did they persist? Short term or long term?

At first I had one every couple of days and then they thinned out and were gone after about 2 months. Hope they don't hang around long for you.]]> Daisy AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 03 Nov 2024 01:15:46 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197749#msg-197749 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197749#msg-197749 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Sat, 02 Nov 2024 04:38:08 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197747#msg-197747 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197747#msg-197747 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 01 Nov 2024 20:02:38 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197743#msg-197743 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197743#msg-197743
"Scaring" may have been the wrong word; I'm not a Dr. However, I believe that going up one's groin to their and ablating, burning, cauterizing, zapping, or whatever the proper term is, cannot leave a heart without some sort of an unnatural state. It cannot be compared to an unablated ticker with regards to performance or efficiency. And I wonder if its remotely possible for a little piece of all those "zaps" to break off. I will ask my Dr at my next consultation for a 2nd ablation.

I do believe ablation is a good option when all else fails; but I'd like to know of the risks.]]> Myticker AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 01 Nov 2024 14:38:49 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197740#msg-197740 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197740#msg-197740 AB Page AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 01 Nov 2024 12:06:46 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197733#msg-197733 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197733#msg-197733
Quote
MeganMN
Thanks George. I also asked Chat and got a similar answer. The doctor did say that I have a PFO. Fascinating. I'm assuming that it isn't usually persistent. The things they don't tell you when you go in for surgery.....

That's why I have you all, right!!

I also had ocular migraines after the placement of a MitraClip which also required a transceptal puncture. The frequency went down as the puncture healed. Once I knew what it was, it didn’t bother me much.]]> Daisy AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:30:53 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197732#msg-197732 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197732#msg-197732


That's why I have you all, right!!]]> MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:04:47 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197729#msg-197729 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197729#msg-197729
Quote
MeganMN
That is really odd. They did pierce my atrial wall. Why in the world does it do that?

Here is what Chat GPT4 has to say:

**Post-ablation migraine** is a recognized phenomenon that can occur after **atrial fibrillation (AF) ablation**, especially when the procedure involves **transseptal puncture** (piercing of the atrial septum) to access the left atrium. Migraine-like symptoms, such as headache, visual aura, and other neurological signs, have been reported post-ablation in some patients, with various hypotheses around the cause. Here’s a summary of how post-ablation migraines may arise, particularly after atrial wall puncture, with supporting references:

### 1. **Mechanism of Migraine Development after Atrial Wall Puncture**:
- **Microemboli Formation**: During transseptal puncture and catheter manipulation, small air or thrombotic microemboli can inadvertently enter the left atrium and subsequently the systemic circulation. These microemboli may reach the brain and trigger migraines by activating the trigeminal vascular system.
- **Evidence**: A study found that patients undergoing AF ablation had a higher incidence of post-procedure migraine-like symptoms, and transcranial Doppler monitoring detected cerebral microemboli in some patients, suggesting a potential link between microemboli and migraines (*Circulation*, 2010).

### 2. **Air Embolism and Neurological Symptoms**:
- **Air Embolism Risks**: Even minimal air emboli introduced during catheter exchanges or transseptal puncture can cause transient ischemic events. These ischemic events might lead to neurological symptoms similar to those seen in migraines, such as visual aura or sensory disturbances.
- **Supporting Research**: Case studies have documented instances of migraine with aura after AF ablation procedures, suggesting that inadvertent air or thrombotic emboli may play a role in triggering these symptoms (*Journal of the American College of Cardiology*, 2012).

### 3. **Endothelial Activation and Inflammatory Response**:
- **Endothelial Damage**: Piercing the atrial septum and ablating cardiac tissue can lead to localized endothelial injury and inflammation. This triggers the release of inflammatory cytokines and endothelial factors that may contribute to migraine mechanisms, as migraines are known to be associated with vascular and inflammatory changes.
- **Inflammation and Migraine**: Inflammatory cytokines, such as interleukins and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-α), released due to atrial wall injury can activate trigeminal nerve pathways, potentially leading to migraines. Elevated inflammatory markers post-ablation have been associated with neurological symptoms in some studies (*Heart Rhythm*, 2016).

### 4. **Association with Patent Foramen Ovale (PFO)**:
- **PFO and Migraine**: Some patients with AF have a patent foramen ovale (PFO), an incomplete closure of the atrial septum that can act as a conduit for paradoxical emboli (emboli crossing from the right to the left side of the heart). During or after ablation, the altered flow dynamics or the presence of microbubbles may increase the risk of paradoxical emboli reaching the brain and triggering migraines.
- **Research Findings**: A study indicated that patients with a PFO who undergo AF ablation may have a higher risk of developing post-ablation migraines, likely due to increased microembolic load (*Neurology*, 2013).

### 5. **Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) Disturbances**:
- **Autonomic Changes**: AF ablation can impact the autonomic nervous system, particularly if ganglionic plexi in the atrial walls are affected. These plexi are involved in the regulation of heart rate and can also influence the trigeminal system, which is implicated in migraine pathophysiology.
- **Link to Migraines**: Ablation-induced changes in autonomic tone, including alterations in parasympathetic and sympathetic balance, may trigger migraines by impacting cerebrovascular reactivity and trigeminal activation.
- **Study Data**: An investigation showed that patients with migraines following AF ablation had measurable autonomic disturbances, which correlated with the onset of post-procedural migraine symptoms (*Journal of Interventional Cardiac Electrophysiology*, 2014).

### 6. **Oxygenation and Cerebral Hypoperfusion**:
- **Transient Cerebral Hypoperfusion**: Reduced cerebral blood flow can occur after AF ablation, especially if microemboli temporarily obstruct smaller cerebral vessels. This transient hypoperfusion can mimic migraine aura and contribute to post-ablation migraines.
- **Research Support**: A study examining cerebral blood flow changes post-ablation found that some patients experienced transient reductions in blood flow, which correlated with migraine-like symptoms post-procedure (*European Heart Journal*, 2015).

### Summary:
- **Microemboli and Air Embolism**: The formation of microemboli or air emboli during atrial wall puncture and catheter manipulation can lead to migraine-like neurological symptoms.
- **Endothelial and Inflammatory Response**: Atrial septum piercing and tissue ablation can trigger endothelial injury and inflammatory cytokine release, which are associated with migraine mechanisms.
- **PFO and Paradoxical Emboli**: Patients with PFO undergoing transseptal puncture may be at higher risk for migraines due to the potential for paradoxical emboli to reach the brain.
- **Autonomic Disturbances**: AF ablation can disturb the autonomic nervous system, potentially triggering migraines via alterations in cerebrovascular tone.
- **Cerebral Hypoperfusion**: Temporary decreases in cerebral blood flow due to microemboli or other factors may lead to migraine-like symptoms post-ablation.

### References:
1. Lellouche N, et al. *Incidence and mechanism of post-procedural migraine following catheter ablation for atrial fibrillation*. Circulation. 2010.
2. Hildick-Smith DJ, et al. *Inadvertent microemboli and post-ablation migraines in AF patients: case reports and implications for catheter safety*. Journal of the American College of Cardiology. 2012.
3. Waldmann V, et al. *Prevalence of migraine with aura after atrial fibrillation ablation and the role of paradoxical emboli*. Neurology. 2013.
4. Pokushalov E, et al. *Inflammation and autonomic disturbance as triggers of post-ablation migraine in AF patients*. Heart Rhythm. 2016.
5. Mainigi SK, et al. *Autonomic nervous system disturbance and migraine following atrial fibrillation ablation*. Journal of Interventional Cardiac Electrophysiology. 2014.
6. Takase B, et al. *Cerebral blood flow changes and post-ablation migraine symptoms in atrial fibrillation patients*. European Heart Journal. 2015.]]> GeorgeN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 21:16:59 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197728#msg-197728 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197728#msg-197728 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 20:23:02 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197726#msg-197726 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197726#msg-197726
Quote
MeganMN
Anyone get weird migraine weirdness after sedation?

A number of us had migraine auras after ablations but that is thought to come from piercing the atrial wall rather than sedation.]]> Daisy AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:11:40 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197725#msg-197725 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197725#msg-197725 MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:06:42 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197723#msg-197723 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197723#msg-197723
As for the scarring, I, too, have had an extensive amount of ablating, and I, too, wonder about long term pliancy of my heart. I do think that later in life it can increase risk for an MI or heart failure, but I was at high risk of ending up with heart failure anyway if I didn't ablate, so it made my choice easier.

I think your concerns are valid and depending on your age and other risk factors, it would be worth exploring all the options. Ablation still seems to be the gold standard, but I definitely think there can be risks later..

Just my thoughts..

Meg]]> MeganMN AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 17:31:47 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197722#msg-197722 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197722#msg-197722 internal to the LA, on the endothelium.]]> gloaming AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:31:57 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197719#msg-197719 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197719#msg-197719 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 15:30:00 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197717#msg-197717 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197717#msg-197717
Quote
susan.d
Scars on your heart from electrical cardio conversion?

I thought it was about ablation.]]> NBeener AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 15:28:13 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197716#msg-197716 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197716#msg-197716 susan.d AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:51:32 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197715#msg-197715 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197715#msg-197715
As a side question to the group - have any of you been shown a picture of your heart after ablation? One was given to me, and I was surprised to see the number of times I was "zapped". I almost went back into A-fib after seeing it. (:P) If I remember correctly, there must have been over 20 zaps. Doc, what'd you use, a shotgun? I accept that my surprise was my fault; I didn't ask how many times I'd be hit during pre-ablation Q&A.
.
I was told that sometimes it takes two ablations to be effective but after seeing that I'm hesitant. I've got to believe those scars on the wall of the heart must render it less pliable and effective. I totally understand its better than having A-fib and possible stroke. However, isn't it possible for one of those scars to break off, causing problems later in life?

Anyone else wonder about this? Is my hesitation on ablation #2 ill-warranted?]]> Myticker AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:40:08 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197711#msg-197711 Re: In Recovery- Successful Ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,197693,197711#msg-197711 NBeener AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 31 Oct 2024 11:55:19 +0000