Input requested on magnesium

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:46:33 +0000

On the Beckett topic...note that:

All three titles emphasize the alkaline bicarbonate fraction of Mg-bicarbonate for lowering IC pH.

April 11, 2000. U.S. Patent 6,048,553 Russell Beckett [patft.uspto.gov]
Aqueous metal bicarbonate solution useful in treating inflammatory, degenerative and viral diseases

Dec. 11, 2001. U.S. Patent 6,328,997 Russell Beckett [patft.uspto.gov]
Aqueous Metal Bicarbonate Solution and Method of Use

March 15, 2012. U.S. Patent application 20120064179 Russell Beckett [www.freepatentsonline.com]
Bicarbonate Solution for Bioavailable Magnesium and Uses Thereof
[I believe the patent was issued but have not searched for it ]

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:04:32 +0000

A couple of more links leading back to Dr Beckett's research on magnesium bicarbonate, longevity, etc.

6/15/2015
Found an old interview with Dr Russell J Beckett on magnesium bicarbonate water 6/6/2002.

[www.abc.net.au]

Peter Bowers on clues that led to Dr Beckett's magnesium bicarbonate water 4/9/2003

[www.smh.com.au]

It seems to be related to increasing longevity by neutralizing some carbon dioxide (carbonic acid). Bats and other animals that efficiently get rid of CO2, have longer lifespans. Magnesium bicarbonate seems to help along that process [of neutralizing CO2], so all of it does not have to be exhaled, this lowering it's level in the blood and tissues.

--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Chuck Connors — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 03:58:46 +0000

Yes, Jackie, I did. Much more than I expected.

Thank you.

Chuck

Re: Input requested on magnesium

GeorgeN — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 16:55:50 +0000

Thanks ghg, maybe something other than the acetate.

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:58:26 +0000

Chuck Connors.... did you receive the information you requested in your initial post?

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:37:42 +0000

GeorgeN,

I have heard that the body burns acetate first, then glucose, then fat. My type 2 diabetes is essentially gone, but still monitoring. I have been off insulin for last 3 months. Started metformin (since Life Extension Foundation highly recommends it). My A1C went from 4.9 to 5.3. Now down to 5.2. My fasting and postprandial sugars have been trending down still. Guessing my current A1C might be 5.0 or 5.1. Have many before meal sugars sub 100. The sugars have continued to drop since switching from mag chloride to acetate on 4/20/15.

I have had a couple of carb heavy meals, which I would figured would blew out my before next meal sugar, but they were still about 100.

I throw in a mag malate pill once or twice a day, just to get some malate as well.

Been testing out WW this week.. Used 4 TBSP MoM, and it all dissolved.. that would be 4.8g Mag per liter of the concentrate. Consume the whole bottle breakfast, mid morning, and lunch.. Just slightly loose. Evening dose is about 1-2 TSP (level) mag acetate syrup on four
1.5 inch square quilted cotton pads, covered with a TegaDerm 6 x 8 inch "frame" transparent dressing. The TegaDerm seals the 4 cotton pads in perfectly! No leaks. Leave on 24 hours.. Even holds up in a shower. TegaDerm is rated for 7 days I think. There is still mg acetate on the pads when I remove them 24 hours later.. That patch might work for 2-3 days ???

I also take carnitine in my LEF "MEO" (mitochondrial energy optimizer) supplement. Check out this post by "DrAbs" in the LEF forum, was for sodium acetate, but would also apply to mag acetate. [ask.lef.org]

So far my lipids look good.

--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

GeorgeN — Fri, 12 Jun 2015 19:19:39 +0000

ghg,

By chance have you measured your blood sugar since using the acetate? I do randomly because, started sampling as part of a low carb diet ~5 years ago, which I've maintained as being keto-adapted and modestly ketogenic (0.5-1.5mmol/L). Since I started the acetate, noticed high fasting and long post prandial serum glucose readings (105-120 mg/dL). Excluded an obvious infection by taking my temperature (97.8 deg F). 28 hours after my last acetate intake, my glucose is now back to normal (88 mg/dL). It isn't the bicarb as added in 8 g of potassium bicarb to my mix this morning and last night (which also included 100 ml Mg Bicarb as Waller Water Concetrate morning & evening). Still at about 4 g of Mg/day which includes 2 g as dimagnesium malate, 1.7 g as MgCl2 and 0.3 g as Mg Bicarb. This is a normal intake for me. The glucose elevations were abnormal so just tried to reverse the last thing I'd done differently - the acetate. It could certainly be something else that I'm unaware of. I have no idea why the acetate would be an actor. Just curious.

{edit} It looks like the conversion from acetate to bicarb happens in the liver. It is at least plausible that this could increase liver activity and serum glucose, just as niacin does.

Perhaps in "normal" doses of 400 mg/day Mg, you'd not notice very much, but 2 g/day you do.

George

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:13:56 +0000

I made up another 1L bottle of WW last night. Canada Dry low sodium Club Soda. I added 4 TBSP of MoM instead of the usual 3. It all reacted out, with no residue left over. The means that bottle contained 2000mg of magnesium, instead of 1500mg. That Canada Dry must have one heck of a CO2 charge. It collapsed the bottle into a vacuum when done.

---
On the DIY transdermal magnesium acetate patch.

I took it off after 24 hours. The cotton pads were still slightly damp, and they showed crystals when they dried out. There was no skin irritation nor any powder left on the skin. After a couple of minutes, one could not even tell there had been a patch on there for the prev 24 hours!. TegaDerm is amazing stuff. A lot less messy than doing the body smear method.

--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Elizabeth — Fri, 12 Jun 2015 02:14:58 +0000

ghg:

Dr. Don Colbert of Orlando, Florida has a pitcher which has a filter In it that will alkaline your water to around 9.0, looks pretty neat.

Liz

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 17:57:11 +0000

Even with all that magnesium acetate and WW, my urine pH is still 6.2-6.8 range. I even take a tad of baking soda too.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Anonymous User — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 15:10:39 +0000

Magnesium Bicarbonate [96.31.45.246]
"magnesium functions as a bicarbonate co-transporter into cells":

6-11, 2009 [www.mgwater.com]
A Double-blind, Placebo-controlled Study of the Effects of Alkaline Magnesium Bicarbonate Solutions on Acid/Base Balance, Bone Metabolism and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Postmenopausal Women

9-14, 2011 Magnesium bicarbonate solution clinical trial video [www.youtube.com]

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:44:34 +0000

ghg - Thanks for the latest on Dr. Sircus.

Sorry to get back late on this. Glad your last batch of WW was perfect.
Your bowel tolerance for consuming that much WW concentrate is enviable.

Undoubtedly, the energy surge comes at least in part from the alkalinity effect… resulting in increased cellular energy or voltage as referenced in this post

Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage – The Inside Story

Healing equates to the proper pH which is synonymous with proper voltage.

These are the clinical observations of Jerry Tennant, MD author of Healing is Voltage, whose remarkable personal healing story is worth noting because we can all take a lesson from his journey back to health. Most importantly, we can apply his principles to conditions that set the stage for LAF. This is the ultimate in Energy Healing
Continue: [www.afibbers.org]

The following clips are from this WW summary post by Erling Waller in April 2012
[www.afibbers.org]

WW analysis:
Magnesium 125 mg/L (calculated)
Bicarbonate 751 mg/L (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Wheatridge, Colorado, Dec 5, '02)
pH 8.63 (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Dec 5, '02)

-- WW is equivalent to the naturally occurring Adobe Springs water in California: [www.mgwater.com]
(Noah’s Caifornia Spring Water is bottled Adobe Springs water) [www.noahs7up.com]
Magnesium 110 mg/l
Bicarbonate 529 mg/l
pH 8.7

Step 4. Making WW essentially identical to Unique Water: Dilute the concentrate 11 to 1 with plain water.
-- Example: 1 oz. concentrate + 11 oz. water = 12 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1/3 liter or 1/3 quart.
-- Example: 3 oz. concentrate + 33 oz. water = 36 oz. WW, which is a bit more than 1 liter (34 oz) or 1 quart (32 oz.).
-- Example: 11 oz. concentrate + 121 oz. water = 132 oz. WW, which is close to 4 liters (135 oz) or 1 gallon (128 oz).

The advantages of the aqueous neutral to mildly alkaline metal bicarbonate solution of the invention are that the magnesium cations function as bicarbonate transporters into body cells. Magnesium bicarbonate enters body cells and the bicarbonate anions function to displace from equilibrium the dissociation reaction of intracellular carbonic acid.

Magnesium bicarbonate enters body cells and the bicarbonate anions function as an intracellular proton sink (or proton scavenger). Magnesium bicarbonate enters body cells and the bicarbonate anions function to displace from equilibrium the hydration reaction of carbon dioxide which is catalysed by the enzyme carbonic anhydrase.

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:22:47 +0000

Dr Sircus did a 1 hour radio show last night on magnesium. He does it almost all transdermal unless he is constipated. Now in archives here:

[www.mixcloud.com]

Last night I made a transdermal magnesium acetate "patch", that seemed to work well.

1) Wipe down chest with 91% isopropyl alcohol to remove body oils.

2) position four quilted cotton squares (about 1.5 x 1.5 inches) in a group on your chest.

3) wet them down with about 1-2 TSP of magnesium acetate "syrup"

4) cover with a TegaDerm 6 x 8 inch dressing.
[www.amazon.com]?

It stayed on all night, does not leak and is a lot less messy than just rubbing it on.

It is also convenient to use a clear mustard squeeze bottle to make up
transdermal mag acetate syrup.
[www.amazon.com]?

dump in some mag acetate powder/crystals, maybe an inch or so in the bottom.
Add very small amount of water. Skake well. Let settle. You should still
have crystals on the bottom and thick liquid on top. Makes it easy to dispense
the liquid as needed and it won't dry out in the bottle.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

GeorgeN — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 02:51:23 +0000

I've been taking 1 g morning and evening of the acetate from your MoM/vinegar recipe the last few days, along with 1 g morning and evening of mag as dimagnesium malate. The acetate seems to work as well as the other forms I've taken, including chloride, bicarb (Waller Water concentrate - but I've never drank the whole liter at once) and glycinate. I've taken 3-5g/day for a number of years. So far seem I've not noticed the energy increase - though my energy is not an issue anyway. I've been keto adapted for ~5 years and usually run my sytem mildly ketotic (0.5-1.5 mmol/L). Not sure if that makes a difference since the ketones are metabolized differently. If I want, I can easily fast for long periods - days - with any energy drop.

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:25:32 +0000

Yesterday, I made up a 1 Liter bottle of WW. I used about 3.5 TBSP MoM instead of the usual 3. Prechilled first, added MoM, shook, back into fridge. Checked 5 hours later, shook again. 5 hours after that, reaction complete, sides of bottle caved in, meaning all CO2 used up, and no residue left over.

This morning I drank 3/4 of it (the concentrate), and the remaining 1/4 over lunch. This was 1500mg of magnesium, or about 1.5 heaping TSP of magnesium acetate powder. Energy picked up faster (no 3 hour delay for the acetate to metabolize), and the effect on bowels was not too bad, about the same or slightly less than the same amount of magnesium acetate powder.. It tasted pretty good also. Had about the same energy boost as from the magnesium acetate powder.

--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:27:04 +0000

Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Phillips brand has that. You found a good one at Dollar General. Only magnesium hydroxide and water is all you want. Kroger also has one. Both stores might have several variants, and those usually have other ingredients in them. Read the labels.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

BillS — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:03:30 +0000

ghg,

How do you know that the MOM doesn't have Bleach?
The Brand at Dollar General says Inactive ingredient is only water.

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:56:22 +0000

This was posted by Erling, I believe in 2003 when the WW concentrate instructions were published here initially... it compares the WW results with commercially available magnesium bicarbonate waters:

WW is intended to be a simple and economical replication of the characteristics of magnesium/bicarbonate "Unique Water", developed and patented by Dr. Russell Beckett, B.V.Sc., M.Sc., Ph.D., an Australian biochemist-pathologist and research scientist. The term "magnesium bicarbonate" is used universally to describe the mixture of magnesium cations and bicarbonate anions found in spring waters and mineral waters.
Read the story behind "Unique Water" at [www.smh.com.au]

--- WW compared with two commercially available magnesium/bicarbonate drinking waters:

- "Unique Water" is a manufactured drinking water available in Australia. It has 125 mg of Mg and 650 mg of bicarbonate per liter, according to the bottle's label. The pH is 8.3.
See [www.nonpharmaceutical.com]

- "Noah's California Spring Water" is a bottled, naturally occurring spring water. It has 120 mg of Mg and 410 mg of bicarbonate per liter, pH 8.3. It can be ordered at [www.noahs7up.com] It is derived from Adobe Springs in California. See [www.mgwater.com]

--- Magnesium dissolved in water (ionized), as in WW, is considerably more "bio-available" than is magnesium in solid tablets or capsules. About 50% of the Mg in magnesium/bicarbonate water is absorbed. To get the approximate equivalent amount of Mg in a bound (non-ionized) tablet or capsule form add 30% to the values for Mg in this WW. For example, 1 liter of this WW has 125 mg of Mg, so the approximate equivalent amount of Mg in a tablet is (125 + 30%) = 162 mg.

--- Recommended reading: Information and recommendations pertaining to "Unique Water" pertain in general to WW as well. The consumer of WW produced from these instructions is encouraged to read the literature of "Non Pharmaceutical Health Care and Unique Water" beginning at [www.nonpharmaceutical.com], with emphasis on "The First Successful Step In The Quest To Delay The Ageing Process" at [www.nonpharmaceutical.com] Also recommended is "The Magnesium Web Site -- Magnesium, Drinking water, & Health" at [www.mgwater.com]

Re: Input requested on magnesium

GeorgeN — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:45:55 +0000

ghg

My error. I hadn't reread Erling's recipe recently and I made a memory mistake. Here is his quote, "Plain Milk of Magnesia (MoM) should be used in the recipe. The “active” ingredient should only be magnesium hydroxide [Mg (OH)2], 400 mg per teaspoon (5 ml), and the “inactive” ingredient should only be purified water. 41.7% by weight of magnesium hydroxide is magnesium (Mg), so 5 ml of MoM has 167 mg of Mg, and 1 tablespoon has 500 mg of Mg (1 tablespoon = 15 ml)." <[www.afibbers.org]

So Erling & you agree.

I tried 2 tablespoons last night & 2 this morning along with probably 2 grams from dimagnesium malate powder and 400 mg from mag glycinate. This is in line with what I've been taking recently.

George

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:41:27 +0000

ghg - the unsettled portions at the bottom of the WW concentrate... can mean you didn't shake it after a couple hours once you complete the initial steps. I always check and shake mine after a few hours and almost never have any residue at the bottom of the finished product ... but have learned after making so many batches over 13 years... that the charge on the seltzer varies so once in a while the crystals do form regardless.

When Erling finalized his recipe, he took it to a lab for analysis... and if I can find that link of the finished product for that batch, I'll post it.

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:53:52 +0000

GeorgeN,

[ask.lef.org]

The MoM I was using stated 1250 mg mag hydroxide per TBSP (measuring cup).
since mag hydroxide is 41.6% mag by weight, two TBSP of MoM should contain 1.04g of magnesium
Maybe I made a math error, or there are different strengths of MoM.

Also, the WW recipe may have a "slop factor", since some of the MoM may settle to the bottom,
unreacted, after the CO2 is all used up. The Fizz water used may be various strengths too.?
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:49:08 +0000

ghg - Thanks for clarifying the example. I agree and understand that the WW used transdermally would not be effective...and I understand from Beckett's work that it's the bicarbonate ion that is the key. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Sircus - he offers great suggestions.

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:40:38 +0000

Jackie,

I used to take 1 heaping mag chloride flakes (10g), split into two more doses usually orally. Sometimes transdermally in the evening. It never bothered my stomach, but sure got the runs if both doses were oral.

The 1.25 Liter of WW concentrate was meant as an example equiv to taking 20g of magnesium acetate. Both would blow out bowels in most people. One person here takes 20g mag acetate, (10g AM and 10g PM), no real bowel issues. The point being, that mag acetate is able to have most of the dose taken transdermally to bypass the gut, and still achieve the same benefit (e.g. fountain of youth) that 1.25L of WW would do if it could be tolerated. WW is way too dilute to have it work transdermally I think. Dr Sircus stresses one needs a very high concentration gradient for transdermal to work. Getting 1-2g/day of magnesium as acetate (metabolizes to bicarbonate) is far more beneficial than 1-2g/day magnesium as chloride due to the huge benefits of the bicarbonate anion.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:26:06 +0000

Jackie,
Sources of magnesium acetate.

[www.bio-world.com]

The above is "analytical grade" (> 99% purity). They will sell to the public. Around $60 per kg jar.

If you are an "institution", then Amresco may sell it to you for about $50/kg

[www.amresco-inc.com]

It is far cheaper to DIY it from bleachless milk of magnesia or magnesium hydroxide powder and vinegar than the two above.
-------
About the same cost as DIY, but much more convenient , below:

If you want 110lbs of it (two 25kg bags - food/pharma grade), contact Rich Murphy email (murphy@amsyn.com). While I can't give out my quote, it is likely to be < $5/lb. Ton qty is somewhere around $1 to $1.50/lb magnesium acetate tetrahydrate from various mfgr.

Certificate of Analysis:
[www.dropbox.com]

SDS sheet:
[www.dropbox.com]

If one takes a standard 48oz jar, one can pack in about 3lb 4oz of the Amsyn product into that size jar, and that would last someone a couple of months at two heaping TSP per day. I don't know of anybody buying 25kg bags and reselling it in jars.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:12:35 +0000

Thanks ghg - do you really mean drink 1.25 liter of concentrate? I doubt that many people could tolerate (bowel) that much. But I do appreciate what you are saying overall. And as has been emphasized in the many WW posts on benefits, the magnesium bicarbonate form is highly beneficial on a continual basis.

I also agree the transdermal Mg "oil" is highly effective.

GeorgeN's approach of using multiple forms and delivery is a great way to accumulate and replete magnesium. Even Epsom Salts foot baths (magnesium sulfate) offer an easy way... plus it's very relaxing to take time out for a foot soak.

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 16:53:09 +0000

If you drink 1.25 liter per day of Erling's Waller Water concentrate per day, that works around to be roughly the same amount of magnesium and bicarbonate from taking 2 heaping teaspoons (20g) of magnesium acetate. That dose will probably cause diarrhea. I doubt that Waller Water would work in transdermal mode, since a very concentrated (e.g. syrup) is needed to get good absorption. Both magnesium acetate and magnesium chloride (magnesium oil) can be concentrated enough so that transdermal administration works. All one could do with Waller Water is drink (oral) up to their diarrhea limit, which would still be better than most other sources of magnesium.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

GeorgeN — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 16:08:06 +0000

Jackie,

1) I've posted Erling's links above.
2) Read ghg's links - he talks about how/where to buy mag acetate & how to make it from mag hydroxide/milk of magnesia & white vinegar. 2 tablespoons MoM (from MoM with no additives) in 8 tablespoons vinegar. Stir. Slowly add a bit more vinegar till it goes clear. According to Erling's chemisty from his Waller Water recipe - 8 tablespoons of MoM = 3 g mag, so 2 tablespoons would be 750 mg mag.

George

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:49:43 +0000

ghg - Very interesting about the magnesium acetate's effect. I like the sound of the 'fountain of youth' effect! ;)

Did the magnesium chloride give you stomach problems. It's so often reported to be very harsh on the stomach.

Where do you buy the magnesium acetate ...and is it pharmaceutical grade or at least food grade quality?

Jackie

Re: Input requested on magnesium

ghg — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 14:49:34 +0000

Anti-AFIB,

Unknown at the time, I had built up sufficient magnesium reserves from months of 10g/day of magnesium chloride. Upon switching to magnesium acetate. 10g in the morning, 10g in the evening (10g = heaping teaspoon), I woke up next morning with fountain of youth effect. Near limitless energy and clarity and focus. Others, without magnesium preloading, took 4-6 weeks to see fountain of youth effect gradually appear.
--ghg

Re: Input requested on magnesium

Jackie — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 14:17:55 +0000

Anti-Afib - you should go back into our archives and read about the history of developing the Waller Water... (by Erling Waller) who, after reading Russell Beckett's science and the benefits found with consuming magnesium bicarbonate water, developed the recipe for making the home made version... using plain Milk of Magnesia and Seltzer Water. You then add the resulting concentrate to your own drinking water. Some of us just drink a measured amount of the concentrate, itself.

One can't beat the benefit of maintaining an alkaline pH plus this form (bicarbonate) of magnesium is most beneficial as well...based on Beckett's science.

If I get a minute, I'll dig into the Archives and post the links so everyone can read the history. Great stuff!

Jackie