Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

smackman — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:00:04 +0000

morpheus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greetings, smackman.
>
> That your bladder symptoms predate your medicinal
> statin use may be an indication that statins
> possibly weren't a contributor to the development
> of your IC (I'm assuming that you don't include
> significant quantities of naturally occurring
> statins in your diet). However, the role that
> statins may play in the continuance or
> exacerbation of your symptoms is probably unknown
> at this time. What is known is that statins can
> destroy smooth muscle tissue in the bladder. IC
> being an idiopathic inflammation (you used
> "infection", so here's a good chance for me to be
> captious ;) and I will be!) lends itself, in my
> estimation, to a "shotgun" approach in terms of
> etiological explanation. The more times the
> shotgun is fired could mean a greater chance for
> hitting what is aimed at.
>
> “The procedure did cause some issues to return
> concerning my Interstitial cystitis or bladder
> pain syndrome (also IC/BPS)”. That's a tempting
> idea, but such an assertion falls into the
> “questionable cause” class of logical
> fallacy--specifically: “post hoc, ergo propter
> hoc”. Clearly there are occurrences where "after
> this, therefore because of this" are valid, but it
> may be unwise to make such an assumption if it
> tends to exclude from consideration other possible
> candidate cause(s) that could, in the end, turn
> out to be the actual culprit(s).
>
> Some of us here may, at times, suggest various
> mechanisms for explaining a given a list of
> symptoms. But I suspect those suggestions are
> merely for consideration only and are not meant as
> some apodictic diagnosis. The thoughts I bring to
> the table are, in general, merely suggestions. My
> ratiocination process tends to seek an overview
> and then proceed to ideas subsumed by that
> overview. Typically I'll pick out one or two of
> the culled-down idea-set elements and post it. For
> example, in another thread I offered "orthostatic
> hypotension" as a mechanism to explain a group of
> symptoms. Shannon referenced my post by
> writing:"Morpheus' idea of orthostatic hypotension
> symptoms match with some of what you described,
> but the duration of your event seemed longer than
> most Orthostatic Hypotension episodes which are
> usually precipitated by standing too fast after
> laying down or reclining in the presence of low
> adrenal insufficiency, such as very low cortisol
> or even Addison's disease." Note that he didn't
> exclude orthostatic hypotension out of hand but
> merely pointed out that the duration "seemed
> longer than most" and, what have been identified
> as the usual precipitations weren't mentioned in
> the symptoms. He thus permitted (implicitly) the
> 2.5% at either end of the “reference range” as
> possibly being operant.
>
>
> You'll note instances where I use indeterminacy in
> my phrasings, e.g.: "might", "perhaps",
> "probably", "could just". I do that on purpose. My
> original post to this thread was: "You might be
> able to rule out a, perhaps, nosocomial bladder
> infection by testing with some urine test strips
> which probably are available at your local drug
> store. If no infection, it could just be the
> effects of the catheterization, as you imply."
> That group of sentences should easily qualify for
> the "weasel-word sentence(s) of the year" award :)
> . If I happen to hit the jackpot (in my own mind)
> I'll probably (ha ha) use the term "ineluctable"
> as in: "my conclusion is ineluctable".
>
> Anyway, as another blast of the shotgun :) I'm
> wondering about your thyroid hormone T3 (free)
> level, for obvious reasons (don't you just hate
> newspaper articles that tell you the height of the
> tallest building in the world but don't tell you
> where it's located or that tell you the location
> of the tallest building in the world but don't
> tell you how tall it is).
>
> Live long and prosper.
>
> morpheus <----blatant thief of precious Vulcan
> salutations

I am a simple man but a educated man. Was I impressed with the above lecture? No..... To me a lot of nothing was said over again.
IC is a extremely stressful condition; A Chronic Painful condition. Unless you are a Physician, OR you have had IC and found a cure for it, I would leave this topic alone because you should not be opining about my IC condition.
Questioning me whether the surgery caused a IC flare up shows your lack of understanding IC. I will leave it there. Have a wonderful day.

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

Anonymous User — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 06:43:57 +0000

Greetings, smackman.

That your bladder symptoms predate your medicinal statin use may be an indication that statins possibly weren't a contributor to the development of your IC (I'm assuming that you don't include significant quantities of naturally occurring statins in your diet). However, the role that statins may play in the continuance or exacerbation of your symptoms is probably unknown at this time. What is known is that statins can destroy smooth muscle tissue in the bladder. IC being an idiopathic inflammation (you used "infection", so here's a good chance for me to be captious ;) and I will be!) lends itself, in my estimation, to a "shotgun" approach in terms of etiological explanation. The more times the shotgun is fired could mean a greater chance for hitting what is aimed at.

“The procedure did cause some issues to return concerning my Interstitial cystitis or bladder pain syndrome (also IC/BPS)”. That's a tempting idea, but such an assertion falls into the “questionable cause” class of logical fallacy--specifically: “post hoc, ergo propter hoc”. Clearly there are occurrences where "after this, therefore because of this" appear to be valid, but it may be unwise to make such an assumption if it tends to exclude from consideration other possible candidate cause(s) that could, in the end, turn out to be the actual culprit(s).

Some of us here may, at times, suggest various mechanisms for explaining a given a list of symptoms. But I suspect those suggestions are merely for consideration only and are not meant as some apodictic diagnosis. The thoughts I bring to the table are, in general, merely suggestions. My ratiocination process tends to seek an overview and then proceed to ideas subsumed by that overview. Typically I'll pick out one or two of the culled-down idea-set elements and post it. For example, in another thread I offered "orthostatic hypotension" as a mechanism to explain a group of symptoms. Shannon referenced my post by writing:"Morpheus' idea of orthostatic hypotension symptoms match with some of what you described, but the duration of your event seemed longer than most Orthostatic Hypotension episodes which are usually precipitated by standing too fast after laying down or reclining in the presence of low adrenal insufficiency, such as very low cortisol or even Addison's disease." Note that he didn't exclude orthostatic hypotension out of hand but merely pointed out that the duration "seemed longer than most" and, what have been identified as the usual precipitations weren't mentioned in the symptoms. He thus permitted (implicitly) the 2.5% at either end of the “reference range” as possibly being operant.

You'll note instances where I use indeterminacy in my phrasings, e.g.: "might", "perhaps", "probably", "could just". I do that on purpose. My original post to this thread was: "You might be able to rule out a, perhaps, nosocomial bladder infection by testing with some urine test strips which probably are available at your local drug store. If no infection, it could just be the effects of the catheterization, as you imply." That group of sentences should easily qualify for the "weasel-word sentence(s) of the year" award :) . If I happen to hit the jackpot (in my own mind) I'll probably (ha ha) use the term "ineluctable" as in: "my conclusion is ineluctable".

Anyway, as another blast of the shotgun :) I'm wondering about your thyroid hormone T3 (free) level, for obvious reasons (don't you just hate newspaper articles that tell you the height of the tallest building in the world but don't tell you where it's located or that tell you the location of the tallest building in the world but don't tell you how tall it is).

Live long and prosper.

morpheus <----blatant thief of precious Vulcan salutations

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

smackman — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 03:09:30 +0000

morpheus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, thanks for the clarification, Shannon. Perhaps
> smackman can include the date of onset of the IC
> symptoms. I was going to comment on the
> relationship of statin use to muscle problems, but
> I figured it'd take too long. But in brief, statin
> use (smackman takes a modest dose of Lipitor) is
> associated with smooth muscle destruction in the
> bladder potentially leading to underactive
> bladder. Smackman makes no mention of underactive
> bladder but a known statin-bladder association is
> a compelling piece of information. In addition, I
> was going to ask if smackman experiences any
> peripheral neuropathies and, if so, was the onset
> of symptoms concomitant with the onset of the IC.
>
> Hang in there, smackman

I was diagnosed with Interstitial cystitis in April 2013; I woke up with the symptoms in Oct. 2012. I did not start taking Lipitor until June 2013 by my Cardiologists instructions. It is a chronic bladder infection with no known cure.

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

Anonymous User — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 17:10:50 +0000

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Shannon. Perhaps smackman can include the date of onset of the IC symptoms. I was going to comment on the relationship of statin use to muscle problems, but I figured it'd take too long. But in brief, statin use (smackman takes a modest dose of Lipitor) is associated with smooth muscle destruction in the bladder potentially leading to underactive bladder. Smackman makes no mention of underactive bladder but a known statin-bladder association is a compelling piece of information. In addition, I was going to ask if smackman experiences any peripheral neuropathies and, if so, was the onset of symptoms concomitant with the onset of the IC.

Hang in there, smackman

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

Shannon — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 16:58:04 +0000

Morpheus,

Smackman's interstitial cystitis is a condition he has had to deal with for some time and way before his ablation. In addition, he did not have a urinary foley catheter during his ablation either, although Dr Natale does use one in most men. Likely with Smackman's issue he decided the balance of risks was with not using it. The modern Thermocool ablation catheters put out a good deal less water than the original generation as it is.

Sounds like its going great Smackman, keep on keeping on!

Shannon

Re: Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

Anonymous User — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 16:49:19 +0000

You might be able to rule out a, perhaps, nosocomial bladder infection by testing with some urine test strips which probably are available at your local drug store. If no infection, it could just be the effects of the catheterization, as you imply.

Day 9 and doing well after Ablation

smackman — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 13:50:39 +0000

I am doing good. My resting heart rate is in the low 60's sometimes high 50's. I am still on Multaq and 12.5 mg ER Beta Blocker.
I get tired rather easily but that is getting better also.
I have had no significant incidences; so far smooth sailing.

I am taking it easy for approx. a month. I am walikng, getting outside but being trying to be "smart" also.

The procedure did cause some issues to return concerning my Interstitial cystitis or bladder pain syndrome (also IC/BPS). This is my next issue to attack after this ablation is past me since my Insurance ded. will be met. It keeps me stressed and does take away from quality of life. My motto right now is trying to take one day,one step at a time.

[www.webmd.com]