Magnesium - Q. for Jackie, Carol et al

Hi,

I've just got hold (here in the UK) of some 'Kirkhams' brand mag glycinate (each containing ONLY 100mg mag from 546mg mag glycinate, plant cellulose, and leucine). I've taken 300mg three times per day for the last few days, and - much like when I tried Solgar's mag glycinate (when you used to be able to get that in the UK) - the ectopics and runs of the same seem to be gotten more frequent rather than less.

My questions are:
1. Has anyone else noticed this? I remember Fran saying she does not tolerate ANY supplements...... anyone else noticed the same?
2. Do I have to give the new supplement time to 'settle in' as it were? Might the mag glycinate make things a bit lumpier at first before starting the job of settling things down?

I know I have a mild mag deficiency since I was diagnosed as such following a 24 hr loading test about a year ago (when I last tried the Solgar brand mag glycinate), so I am naturally keen to address this issue. Maybe I need to do a Fran and just stick with GOOD food.

I would be most grateful for any views and info.

Mike F.

I should have added that after I had taken 400mg mag (via glycinate) yesterday morning, I actually felt quite hot during the late morning in overall body temp terms - unusual for me (especially given the coldish day - 4C) since my peripherals are usually quite cold as a rule.

Yours confused and bamboozled!

Mike F.

I just started taking 400mg magnesium glycinate twicw a day (one in the morning and one at night) last week and after the first 3 days I was elated that my pulse had dropped from 95 to 105 to 78 to 82. However since then the pulse rate has varied sometimes back high, other times lower. I also started to feel something in the side of my neck and a flushed sensation generally. I have cut back to 2 pills 1 day and 1 pill the next. I am 6 feet 3 inches tall and weigh 225lbs and am wondering in weight might be a factor. I too am wondering if there is a settling in period. My wife's blood pressure was 170/85 and she started taking 400mg twice a day a few days ago and her blood pressure has dropped to 150/85.

Mike - I can't respond to how the brand you obtained might react for you. My only experience is with 1) Metagenics Mag Glycinate - works great.
2) Solgar chelated magnesium with calcium - promotes afib.

Did you see my post where I gave you a contact in the UK to find out how you can get the Metagenics product?

Mike - you could be just like Fran...can't take supplements. If that is the case, then you would be well advised to try to get a super-abundance of magnesium from foods. Fran undoubtedly instruct you in that method.

My experience with doses in the area of 300 - 400 mg. daily did not influence a lessening of afib at all. It was only until I was at a dose of 800 - 900 that the breakthrough afib began to stabilize.

My heart rate did lower as well as my blood pressure - slightly - mine is always low.

The relaxing effect of magnesium on blood vessels is responsible for the lowering of blood pressure. My skeletal muscles are also very, very relaxed.

I have no idea what might cause the flushing. Perhaps additives or fillers in the supplement...to which you are having an allergic reaction or at least a sensitivity.

I keep harping on the book, The Magnesium Factor by Mildred Seeling, MD,
and I think that anyone who is serious about using magnesium as a possible treatment for afib should read and understand exactly what Dr. Seelig explains about the function of magnesium in the body. She covers a wide area of conditions but does emphasize heart health and arrhythmias.

Also, it's important to know and understand what depletes magnesium in the body so adjustments can be made not only to replenish but go well beyond the required level. Think of a sink you are filling with water. With the stopper in... the sink will overflow with a constant supply of water. But, if you leave the stopper open, and the keep water flowing ...it will never, ever reach overflowing unless something is done to prevent the outflow. It is the same with magnesium.... stores depleted can never reach the required level if you don't know what is consuming or causing the ouflow. Everything happens at the cellular level. Magnesium deficiency is no exception.

Magnesium is known to dissolve calcifications in tissue and blood vessels...although I doubt that either yours or Howie's experiences would be a result of this in such a short time.

Intractable magnesium deficiency is at the root of many conditions including arrhythmia.....it can take a very long time to overcome the deficiency - even years and sometimes never.

I always think that food is the best resource, but sometimes one just can't consume enough to reach the therapeutic level and supplements have to be used.

Good luck Mike. I admire your diligence and tenacity to conquer this problem. Be well, Jackie

Mike and Howie,

It is quite interesting, how you two are being affected by Mg. In regards to you Mike, I'm guessing a few different scenarios, but they are pure guesses. First, because you're on an SSRI, you are holding serotonin at the synaptic cleft, which somewhat indicated a deficiency in tryptophan or a possible disruption in it's pathway to serotonin. Vit. B6 (conenzymated P5P) and Mg are important for this pathway, so you could try adding B6. Same with you Howie. On the other hand, due to the med, you might be overstimulating this pathway by way of Mg, because the body thinks it already has enough serotonin, and now it's making more than it needs, hence overstimulation. Another guess, is that you may have the glutamate sensitivity that Fran has, and this could indicate a molybdenum defiency. Mike, you said you were low in Mg., but what were your Ca. levels? I'm not completely convinced, that Ca is a problem for all. I took Ca and Mg with no problems, and I actually show lower in Ca and normal to high in Mg. Taking at a 1:1 ratio on an experimental basis may give you some insight, and most foods contain this ratio. Until one gets their nutrient levels assessed, it will always be a guessing game, and you may have to play around with supplements to try and figure it out. This is my scenario, as I see it from my test:

Normal - Copper
Normal to high - Mg. inside cell
Normal to low - Ca hair
Very low - Molybdenum
Normal - Zinc
Normal to high - Potassium
Normal to high - Sodium
Normal to high - Phosphorus Hair
Low - Phosphorous serum about a year ago
Normal - Manganese
Low - Sulfur containing aminos methionine, cysteine, taurine
Lowest - Tryptophan
Low - Tyrosine
Very low B12 and Folate

Howie, my wife almost eliminated her flushing with MSM (sulfur) mixed with a buffered Vit C powder. Another pointer is that flushing is caused by hormonal imbalances, so I've read, and molybdenum helps restore hormone balances (see conf room topic Molybdenum). It doesn't matter if we're doing what the doctor says or treating ourselves, we're still a bunch of guinea pigs. Wheet, wheet.

Richard

Jackie,

You asked:

"Mike - I can't respond to how the brand you obtained might react for you. My only experience is with 1) Metagenics Mag Glycinate - works great.
2) Solgar chelated magnesium with calcium - promotes afib.

Did you see my post where I gave you a contact in the UK to find out how you can get the Metagenics product?"

To which I would answer: yes Jackie, I did note your kind assistance in a previous post (sorry to have inadvertantly neglected to thank you for that yet) and thankyou. I contacted the appropriate party as suggested and got given another contact which led me the 'The Nutrition Centre' in London where I was informed that Metagenics could only be obtained on prescription (with a nutritional doc NOT my GP (who wouldn't be registered with them))..... BUT that I could have an alternative product made by Kirkhams containing as I said earlier:

"ONLY 100mg mag from 546mg mag glycinate, plant cellulose, and leucine" i.e. nothing else such as the usual calcium diphosphate and magnesium stearate etc., so I thought I'd give it a go.

Furthermore, I have bought and read the bulk of the Seelig book, and very informative it is too. Hence my determination to really go for the mag glycinate supplentation......... and my slight disappointment on its preliminary effects on me.

Richard,

My intracellular Ca levels were right at the bottom of range...... and this despite guzzling thousands of calcium-laden (546mg/tablet) tums over the a period of many years up until a year or so ago

Drrratttt,

I hit the post button by accident. To continue:

And serum calcium is mid-range (for what that test's worth). 'Corrected Calcium' - whatever that is - is also low end of range. So my Ca levels look low.

I've emailed Doc Wilson to see if he can do the hair testing for me despite my being in the UK and am awaiting a reply.

I think for now I'll do a Fran and get 800mg mag from food.

I too am interested in molybdenum - I actually - as ever - rushed off and ordered some chelated moly as soon as it cropped up on the forum..... it hasn't arrived yet, so at least that's given me an opportunity to more properly deliberate as whether I need to take it or not!

(BTW Richard, FWIW, my cholesterol is a little high, as is my blood urea. Billirubin is always elevated for me - jaundiced as a baby and technically Gilbert's Syndrome as an adult).

Thnaks Jackie and Richard and others for your continuing and much-appreciated help.

Mike F.

Mike - Sorry the Metagenics seems so unavailable, but perhaps, as I said before.... the food sources are a better choice for you. I know I would be very happy if I could have done it all with food....certainly less expensive and alot more wholelsome.

Great that you are into the book. Doesn't it say that low magnesium creates high cholesterol? Or am I thinking of something else.

Good luck... l'll be very interested in your food approach.
Be well, Jackie

Hi, All
I have to report that after a period of blessed relief from afib, which I attributed to the magnesium glycinate, while I am not getting classic afib, I am now having a problem with pacs or pvcs AND runs of taccychardia AND a very pronounced heart beat that keep me awake night after night. I'm fine, NSR, during the day, except for being very, very tired from next to no sleep.

Don't know why things are changing. It almost seems like this is an intermediary stage between full blown vagal nocturnal afib and no afib. It have noticed that when I feel stressed out I seem to break through the protection of the magnesium. So, this may be just a stress thing after all.

I have gone up to 800 mg. mag. glycinate, a combination of mag with calcium (Solgar) and some straight mag. (KAL)

I am discouraged as can be. Don't know whether to quit supplementing with mg. or increase further or stop taking the Solgar with calcium. The problem is that I have a food intolerance to milk products and figured that I need the calcium with the mag.

Any thoughts?

Don't be discouraged Carol. I don;t know what to suggest for the best but I know that if it was me I would cut down on the calcium. Calcium is excitory and doesn't get used up (it is stored) like Mg which is involved in so many more processes.

Chin up

Fran

Carol,

Glad to hear from you, but sorry things are turning back the wrong direction. You might double check your B vitamins and see if they are enough to keep up with your higher doses of Mg. I'm not sure what is enough, but Dr. Gersten put me on some pretty high doses. Another suggestion, is to give the vitamins a rest and see how you feel. Maybe you've reached your saturation levels, and continue on with a good diet.

Richard

Carol, your story at night are just like mine, try copper-manganese-potassium-selenium+ 3-4-5gram with natrium ascorbat, it realy did the trick for me.

kjell

Carol - so sorry to hear this. You were my role model. You got me started with my success by increasing the magnesium glycinate dosage.

I would try eliminating the calcium for a while. I simply cannot take supplemental calcium.

Hang in there. Let us know in a few weeks if this condition doesn't reverse.

Jackie

Can you take too much magnesium--magnesium excess pretty much does the opposite of magnesium deficiency. Muscles can become weak, the digestive system runs fast, your heart rate and blood pressure can go too low, which in turn can force your heart into palpitations.

I went a little over a month without any AF now this week I have had 3 episodes (took rythmol and converted to NSR within 3 hrs). I thought the meyers plus IV that I took the last few months, also the 300 mg. of mag., was what was helping me, but that is bull.

I spoke with my EP's nurse today and she said that you can go for months without AF then have a run of it, I am inclined to believe that.

Liz Vagal

Kjell,

Good to hear you're still out there. It sounds like the supplements are working well for you. Did you ever start your aminos? How long have you been on that combo, above, and how long did it take to see results. Are you taking 3,000 mg. of copper, and 4,000 mg of manganese. That's seems like a lot. Hope all is well.

Thank you,
Richard

Liz,

I have read where excess magnesium is pro-arythmic, too. As with most things, you have to find a balance.

BillB
48;A;2000

Kjell,
Please spell out the amounts in milligrams of the supplements that you take.

Thank you.
Carol

HI Richard , I am reading your post everyday,you are realy a stayer.I have got my aminoes ,but I have waited to start becauce I have a good feeling for my new regime , but if it failes I will go on with amino acid, I believe our problems comes from STRESS and wrong nutrition ,for me a history of Heliocobacter Pylori, ulcer,gerd, intolerance against gluten, went on toilet 3-4 times aday , my minerals and vitamins went just out before intestines could absorb it, and heavy alcohol didnt make it better.now I am 50 ,and its time to start all over again,and fill body up with the best of food and wine.


kjell

Kjell,

Thank you for your response. I hope your new regimen will work very well for you. I'll let you know how I do with the aminos, as it unfolds.

Best of Health to You,
Richard