Lecture by Dr. Sinatra

Hello All,

I went to a lecture by Dr. Stephen Sinatra, one of the better-known “natural” cardiologists, last night (10/22). His office is about 60 miles from my home in CT. The subject was hypertension and cardiovascular disease. He did field a few questions about AFIB, but after the lecture I was able to ask him some questions. Essentially, my questions were “Have you had many of your patients cure AFIB through natural means?” and “Have you ever suggested a patient get an ablation?”

To the first question, he said he had seen some patients cure themselves of AFIB using natural means. But he said it was rare. This, he said, was mostly because there are so many potential causes of AFIB and it is difficult to isolate which one or ones apply in a particular case.

To the second question, he said he had suggested some patients go for an ablation. He said it was essentially a quality of life issue. He asked me how often I had AFIB (every day), and what drugs I had tried (flecanide, Norpace – as well as beta-blockers Atenolol and Toprol). When I mentioned I was currently on coumadin, he seemed sympathetic to my plight. He suggested magnesium, fish oil, L-Arginine and CoQ10 (gel form). I told him I take all of them with marginal success. Although he didn’t say it (and I didn’t ask), I had the feeling he thought an ablation should be considered.

The timing of the lecture was good. I talked to Dr. Chenitz at NYU about an ablation on October 10 and will be meeting with the people at Yale on October 29.

I appear to be having some success with (Pure Encapsulations) magnesium glycinate (though not without some stomach problems). I have been using it since 10/1/03. I had used the citrate variety for years without obvious effect. Since I am now spending quite a bit of time each day in NSR, I feel less urgency and am willing to see what happens in the next few weeks.

But, lately, I have grown to feel that an ablation is likely to be successful. So I have now raised the bar on natural means. If I can be drug-free and limit episodes to no more than a few hours a month, I would likely for-go the ablation. But if I have to remain on drugs (except maybe on demand) – breakthroughs or not – I am going to have an ablation. I think the drugs are as risky as the ablation – and right now they aren’t even working very well.

Any thoughts?

BillB
48;A;2000

Bill,

Thanks for the interesting post. I note Sinatra states that:

"He had seen some patients cure themselves of AFIB using natural means."

It would be most illuminating to learn exactly how many (out of how many), and by which natural means, or are we to assume the natural means referred to are:

"magnesium, fish oil, L-Arginine and CoQ10 (gel form)"

??

Mike F.

Bill,

Thank you for the information. I certainly hope I can prove him wrong, in curing myself through natural means. I sure hope you're reading all the posts in the conference room, as I haven't seen any comments from you, and feel they are all very interesting. You might want to take a look at this post, but there's many others of interest, as well.

[www.yourhealthbase.com]

Richard

Hi and thanks for your input, all. For some reason, I find great comfort visiting this site, EVEN THOUGH my afib is soooo much less frequent, thanks in part to the suggestions I've taken from you all. I've been living with afib for several years now, off and on with evening being the worst time and it worsening progressively and finally went for help. We tried the meds to no avail so I succumbed to cardioversion ~ again no relief. When Dr. named three alternatives: Try the meds again, ablation, or live w/it, I opted for trying meds again. Though it made me feel awful: tired, cranky, no energy, I began taking 80mg Sotalol 2X day. After giving it a few days, it finally kicked in and pretty well controlled the fibrillation. However, it was at that time that I also began trying some of the recommendations found here: Mg, E, CoQ10, Hawthorne, fish oil, (just began and this has brought major relief for me) extra B vits & carnitine, in additon to other "regular" supplements. That offered some relief (mg & B's were most dramatic). Now, I'm doing the paleo diet to the best of my ability BUT I'm finding the biggest triggers truly are ethanol (alcoholic bevs being the biggest culprits, I believe) and msg and God knows what else in all the cruddy food I've been ingesting for the past ten years. But you might try the supplements ALONG w/ cutting out alcohol and msg. Moderating my exercise program seems to have helped also. By the way, I only take 80mg of the Sotalol whenever an "attack" occurs, which is less & less often, perhaps once every 4-5 days. And I look forward to "kicking" it completely. All the best to you. K

Bill - My thoughts would be that if you can remain relatively afib free using the drugs and the magnesium glycinate, then by all means hold off with ablation....unless it is a quality of life situation. You are young and should be enjoying all life has to offer. However, the longer you can wait, the better chance there is for improvement in the technique and a better success rate.

Given time, I strongly feel people can become afib free with the use of magnesium but one has to understand what is involved with a magnesium deficiency and how it needs to be treated.

If I were your age, I'd be waiting for a while - unless of course - the afib or the drugs are making you non-functional.

Perhaps you could get your MD to consider placing you on a "on-demand protocol" if you feel your heart is stable enough to wean off your present medication. Many posters are doing well with this approach.

Good luck. Be well. Jackie

Katie: In limiting the solatol howdo you control your heart rate when in afib? As for myself I don't see a way out or runn the risk of tachycardia. Thanks-Gary

Thanks for all your responses and support.

Just a few quick things:

First of all, I thought Dr, Sinatra said L-Arginine, but I see he has written a book on L-Carnitine and heart function. He might have said L-Carnatine, which I currently do not take. (I do take L-Arginine).

Mike: My guess is the people who are most likely to cure themselves by natural means are those who can clearly trace the problem to dietary deficiencies (e.g. magnesium) or dehydration or holiday heart, etc. Even my regular EP, a pill pusher to be sure, would concede if someone had a mg deficiency, mg would likely fix it. He just doesn't think most of the people with AFIB have a mg deficiency. He may underestimate the problem, but I don't think all AFibbers are mg deficient. Otherwise, mg would have cured (as in it once was often and now it is no more) more people on this site than it has.

Richard: Actually, I don't think you would prove Dr. Sinatra wrong if you cured yourself naturally. I also don't think you would prove him right if you failed to cure yourself naturally. He would say that some people can and most people cannot - which is really born out by this site, don't you think?

Katie: I don't drink and haven't since college. Some friends have suggested that's why my heart is all screwed up!!! I avoid foods that obviously have MSG (e.g. take out Chinese), but it's a lot like gluten. MSG shows up in the strangest places - and under all sorts of assumed names.

I have watched the natural vs drug/ablation battles at this site that pop up from time to time. I would say I'm clearly in the middle on it. I think there are prudent things people should do to stay healthy - many of which require we sacrifice things we love. I would also say that some people can cure AFIB (and other maladies) strictly through lifestyle/dietary changes.

But I am not convinced EVERYONE can cure themselves through natural means. If I had prostate cancer, I'd have it removed before I would eat ground up peach pits. Thinking that EVERYONE can cure themselves of AFIB naturally, it seems to me, is a tremendous leap of faith. It assumes there is a balance in the universe and that God would not create us so imperfectly that we could not cure ourselves. But nature (or God) makes anatomical mistakes. Kids joined at the head, kids with holes in their hearts and no arms and legs and the inability to produce insulin. For many AFIB is probably a anatomical mistake - which seemingly is becoming more more correctable every day.

I had a baptist minister friend who once told me that I would never find God because I was too much in love with the search. But I do not fancy myself searching Don Quijote-like for the the next 30 years for a natural cure to AFIB. There will come a point in time I will stop looking for Dulcinea and just "love the one I'm with." (Read that, "get an ablation!")

BillB