Vegan vs Paleo

I am SO CONFUSED about my diet and so am turning to you--my fellow afibbers and diet "gurus" for some help!! I know I need to make some changes in diet but I am having trouble deciding on a plan. My grown children are vegans and are very healthy and happy with that lifestyle choice. They are encouraging me(big time) to become a vegan and strongly feel that by doing so my afib will become less problematic. For convenience, it would certainly be nice to eat the same thing they do as we are together often. However, I read on this board that many of you are on the Paleo Diet and that it has been helpful. That sounds encouraging to me. I have read books about both choices and find some similarities such as no sugars, no dairy, processed foods, carbs--but of course, the big deal is the meat. So-- how important is the meat on Paleo or beans and legumes on vegan? Does it matter where the protein comes from ? Would the vegan diet be harmful? Which diet is best not only just for afib but also for overall health ?

Thank you in advance for you help.

PJ ( actually another Pam )

PJ,

I think the ultimate answer lies in what our closest DNA relative, the chimpanzee, eats. His/her diet is by instinct, ours is driven by opinions and what tastes good, and monetary gain by deception. Some think this doesn't pertain, because we aren't monkeys, but I happen to think it does. Now granted, I'm not going to eat insects or eat my meat raw, but nevertheless, the answer is there. The chimp is considered frugivorous, but also eats saps from trees, but one must remember that he utilizes more energy than the average human, when consuming these sugars. He eats insects for protein, leaves, and tubers. For 2-3 mths. out of the year, he kills and eats the Red Colobus monkey. The chimps are extremely excited when doing so.

Some of the deception could be because if we all ate meat, we couldn't keep up with the demand of the population, and there is a greenhouse issue from cattle's excrement to contend with. Beans, corn and rice take far less room to grow, and can feed larger amounts of people.

Another important issue is Vit. B12, which is mostly derived from proteins, esp. red meat and liver. This vitamin is extremely important for methylation in the body. Without it, the very DNA of your cells cannot be replicated, when a cell dies. It is also important for assisting the amino acid, methionine, in its pathways to neurotransmitters. B12 is also needed to help methionine break down to cysteine which coupled with glutamate and glycine, forms a tripeptide called glutathione, that is the strongest antioxidant in the body. Cysteine then goes to taurine that is used in the heart muscle and for bile. The liver stores up to 6 yrs. of B12, because its that important. Vegans are told to supplement with B12 to avoid anemia, but it's much more important than for just that. I do believe that there is small amounts of B12 in certain grains or vegetables, but I can't presently remember what they were.

Meats also contain all the essential amino acids, whereas vegetables, rice and beans, do not. You could do careful combining of foods to get the full spectrum of aminos, however, but then you must consider the glycemic index of these foods. First off, they are carbohydrates, and the energy must be utilized or the body stores them as fat. Second, beans and soy contain phytic acid, which protects them from being eaten, and when consumed, the minerals aren't absorbed, but carried out of the body, along with other minerals in your body. If the rice still had its bran attached (oatmeal too), then it must be soaked for fermentation, to release the minerals and phytic acid, making it more appropriate for consumption, and more nutritious this way. The same goes for beans, and that is why they are suppose to be soaked.

PJ, I really can't speak for everyone, only myself and how I felt when starting Paleo. I started off eating protein 2-3 times per day, with salads and vegetables at every meal. I ate some fruits and a variety of nuts. I ordered and ate grass fed, organic meat, fish, organic chicken and eggs. The real test would be for you to try 2-4 weeks of being vegan and 2-4 weeks of going Paleo, and then see what works the best for you. To give it a good comparison for yourself, make sure you take methylcobalamin (methylated B12) during both trials. Even though I was eating a lot of protein, I'm still having problems with B12. My blood type is O+ and this type of diet works well for this type. I was also becoming insulin resistant, and eating rice, potatoes, and bread was an issue of glucose. For a good article you might read this link, given by Erling, who is another ex-fibber.

www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.htm

Hopes this helped.

Richard

PJ - A vegan diet can work for some people. Others, will develop insulin resistance because of too many carbs...even though they are complex carbs. We just don't need an abundance of carbs.

My functional medicine MD tells me that of all the people she treats, the vegans and the vegetarians have the worst cases of metabolic deficiencies because they simply cannot get enough of the type of protein they need from these diets that rely on beans and legumes as the protein source. They frequently are terribly deficient in B12 as well. B12 supplements may help but she says the best treatment is B12 injections.

I agree with Richard that you may want to try the vegan eating for a few weeks... but my personal experience with vegan was that I was fine, felt well, and then crashed when the insulin resistance developed....and I didn't know that was what had happened. It took over a year of work to reverse it and I'm still working to eliminate the consequences.

Do read the Rosedale article Richard mentions.... insulin resistance is a big threat to this country and is very difficult to reverse.... don't get started on that path if you can help it.

It will do no good to argue with your children, but perhaps if they are open-minded, you can print out the article - 4 parts - and get them to read it. It's very solid information and vitally important to health...theirs included.

What I've learned after investigating and trying alot of eating plans is that a little bit of high-quality protein (organic) with every meal and/or snack so that you intake is protein, non-starchy vegetables, leafy greens, and healthy fats, is the best way to eat to stay healthy.

If you don't know Dr. Mercola's web site - try www.mercola.com and check out his Metabolic Typing Diet...there is a book, but you can learn alot just from the web pages.

Keep in touch. Jackie

Richard,I`ve been reading up on my new diet and I had questions about whether the following foods would fit into a Paleo type diet...Dried fruits(fig,prunes etc,)Juicing,almond based non-dairy beverage or soy based beverages or eggwhites with no yolk.As someone who has had borderline high cholesterol and slightly high LDL I`m concerned about my levels with this diet..All in all the Paleo makes a ton of sense to me from a common sense point of view.I`m looking forward to seeing if it does help my over-acid producing system.

Sammy,

Boy, you've got me on the dried figs and prunes. Hopefully Fran will comment on that one. Personally I think juicing is great, especially with almond milk, but you should avoid soy, as it is especially not good for men, as it ups their estrogen levels. (Read more at www.westonaprice.org). As for avoiding egg yolks, I don't worry about that, and my LDL's are up, as well. The yolks are full of nutrients, and actually have a protective effect on cholesterol. The industry led us astray, so they could sell Eggbeaters and the like. Dr. Jonathan Wright of the Tahoma Clinic (www.tahomaclinic.com) states the importance of eggs, and that one should eat 12 per week. I don't eat that many, however; usually about 4-6 per week. If ones cholesterol is high, it is my belief that the liver isn't processing the fats because it is missing important minerals and amino acids (glycine and taurine for bile or histadine for acid secretion), or the wrong kind of fats are in the diet. As much red meat as I was eating, from Feb. 03 until the time tested, July 03, you would think that my saturated fats would have been high, but it was quite the contrary. On my Metabolic Fatty Acid Analysis of the red blood cells, my saturated fat and Omega 6's were not the problem. The overall averages were actually below normal. It was my Omega 3's and 9's that were above average. It goes into more depth than that, because each fatty acid is separated out, but all are averaged. That's the problem with typical testings of fats done by doctors, is that it doesn't break the fats down, to know which ones are the problems. It just groups all fats into one block, so you cut out saturated fats, when it may be fish or olive oils, or worse yet, hydrogenated fats, that are more of the problem. One of my fatty acids, tricosanoic, indicates a Vit. B12 deficiency, because it is high, and yes I'm B12 deficient. I haven't studied this test in much depth, as I've been working on other ones presently. In looking while posting this, I found that I have a biotin deficiency based on the ratio of Vaccenic and Palmitic fatty acids. The first one under trans fats indicates high, while the latter indicates low. I do not eat trans fats or hydrogenated fats, but a high ratio between the two indicates a biotin deficiency. (From the book "Laboratory Evaluations in Molecular Medicine") I'm still learning.

So, Sammy, I think it's better to be moderate in a wide variety of good fats, because they are important for the cell membranes as well as the brain, which contains 60% phospholipids (fats). I might have been overdoing the red meat, but my tests indicates it wasn't the one causing my LDLs to go up. That was more to do with fish and olive oils. Go figure. Hope this helps.

Richard

Dried fruit is typically not recommended if one is following a low glycemic index carb allowance. Too much natural sugar in dried fruit...except for apricots...maybe...don't hold me to that one. Have to look it up.

Just remember, if it tastes really good and sweet, it probably isn't good if you are watching carbs to reduce the blood glucose spikes and insulin production....and avoiding insulin resistance.

To protect the integrity of the phospholipid layer of the cells....the only fat that does this is the Omega 3 essential fatty acid. This statement is well documented.

If you want to study fats - try reading some of Mary Enig's work or Sally Fallon.... just type their names in on a google search. Sally has an excellent article called the Oiling of America and it is based on Mary Enig's work in fat research. She's a PhD recognized world-wide as an expert in her field of fat research. If you have trouble with the google, then go to www.mercola.com and on his own web search box, type in those names and you'll get the articles and more.


To really understand the importance of essential fatty acids such as Omega 3's, one must do the reading and try to understand the role they play.

On the topic of LDL's - this is my take on what is important. LDL's are the source of oxidized cholesterol. This is bad for everyone but especially afibbers since they create inflammation. Reducing the inflammation after ablation (my protocol at the CCF was done with Lipitor - to knock down quickly - any oxidized LDL in the blood and therefore at the site of the ablation...to reduce inflammation and speed up healing.) Oxidized LDL's are the culprits. Bad news. The more you have, the worse it is.

This is especially important for afibbers since the oxidized LDL is an irritant or inflammatory agent. Al ot of it occurs in the area of the pulmonary veins - the site where so many of the rogue cells fire that cause arrhythmia and the reason why they now ablate there first and foremost.
(Refer to Hans book on oxidative stress.)

Policosanol (a natural statin) studies indicate reductions similar to statins on LDL but better results to increase HDL's. High levels of LDL are a major risk factor for atherosclerosis and heart disease.

Carbs and bad fats are the enemy. Learn to identify and eliminate.

Jackie

Sammy and Jackie,

As I read your post, Jackie, and then re-read my post, it dawned on me that I was coming across as if fish and olive oils could be bad. I didn't mean to convey that at all. Fish and olive oils are excellent fats, and I have been incorporating those in my diet, maybe a bit too much, so my point was to eat a variety of good fats, but emphasis should be on fish and olive oils, but one shouldn't worry about the occasional lean red meat or eggs. Borage, black currant, grapeseed and evening primrose oils are good, as well. Hope this clarified my point.

Here's to happy hearts for the New Year.
Richard

OK Richard - now you're in the right groove! I do the same thing - think I'm writing with a perfectly clear intent and then realize I missed the mark by a slot or two.... Glad to learn your diet is good...and I don't think occasional lean red meat is at all harmful. There are nutrients in red meant not obtainable otherwise. Eggs are a mainstay as long as they are organic. They are good for us.

Happy Hearts, indeed - to all.

Jackie

Richard and Jackie,

Thank you so much for your information--it was just what I was looking for. After reading your posts, the Rosedale article and rereading the Paleo Diet Book, I have decided to use the Paleo Diet and not the vegan diet. It seems to make sense , especially for those with afib. If you have any other advice for me I would always appreciate hearing from you.

Happy New Year ==

PJ

PS Do you take CoQ10? What kind of magnesium?

Sammy

I follow a paleo diet and sometimes eat dried figs etc. I am sure paleo man would have dried fruit for leaner times. The only thing you should watch out for is the way they have been dried. I only eat sun dried fruit - without the use of sulphites. Some dried fruits also get coated with vegetable oil and glucose to give the fruit a nicer sheen. Sulphites will give an MSG type symptom and were certainly not used in pale times. Also if you do eat dried eat them with nuts to stave out any insulin reaction. Or after a good meal.

Fran - who just ate four sun dried dates and handful of almonds.

Dont you hate when you write write a real good-in depth post only to press the wrong button on your keyboard and have the whole message disappear forever? That happened to me today writing a post for this topic we`re on...Anyway,what I was going to say was...I went and spent 200$ on meats,veggies,eggs,fruits,berries,dried meats and other Paleo style foods.I`m very excited about this new way of eating for me.A lot of it is very familiar and comfortable-I`ve always eaten lots of fruit and veggies.The strange part is getting used to eating things like whole eggs,pork rind and dried meats-beef jerky etc. without feeling a twinge of guilt...I had a strange thought today that I felt so great knowing that we live in a time and place where we have the options to make these swift changes in our diet or lifestyle and have the freedom and resources to do so.I`m really hoping that my original reason for this change will be successful..Getting rid of GERD once and for all...One last question for anyone that knows something about this...From the time I`ve been doing bloodwork(maybe 15-20 years)I have always had high biliruben counts.My dad had the same thing as me.Any doctor I`ve ever had has said to me "dont worry about it,some people just have high counts." The question is,could high biliruben account for high acid secretion and GERD? If yes,how does one get their biliruben to a normal range....Thanks again for great info...ALL of YOOZ...Fran,thanks for the dried fruit answer..I think I`ll continue with some figs,apricots etc..

PJ Pam

I’m no expert on Paleo diets but I have been following what I like to refer to as a paleo type diet for about 11 months now. Except for the last 10 days or so when the Season of eating (Christmas snacks and sweets every where you go) began, I’ve (for the most part)stuck to not eating anything made with processed flour, rice, potatoes beans and dairy. I've lost 40 lbs. feel much better more energy etc. and have lowered my blood pressure from 130 /90 to 118/70. I'm sure my HDL and LDL are better too but must wait a few more months before testing.

Protein is important. Barry Sears (The Zone) advocates a 30/30/40 ratio of protein,carb and fat in order to stay in what he calls the Zone( optimal insulin response). It's an interesting and educational read. Meat is the best source of concentrated protein that you will find. You just need to find good organic sources. Protein levels from plants are usually very low and require you to eat massive and unrealistic amounts of carbs in order to get adequate protein levels.
Carbs are important for brain function but can be manufactured from protein and fat, and Fats like olive oil and fishoil are essential for healthy cell membranes.

Get the best of both, A wide variety of raw vegetables and nuts from the vegan diet (eat rainbow)and quality organic sources of meat and fish from paleo diet with adequate sources of omega 3 oils from both.

Join the Tribe

Adrian v49

"Bagels" Evil lumps of poison!

Sammy,

Here's a bit on bilirubin, that you might find of interest.

A byproduct of the breakdown of red blood cells in the liver, bilirubin is a good indication of the liver’s function. Excreted into the bile, bilirubin gives the bile its pigmentation. Elevated in liver disease, mononucleosis, hemolytic anemia, low levels of exposure to the sun, and toxic effects to some drugs, decreased levels are seen with an inefficient liver, excessive fat digestion, and possibly a diet low in nitrogen bearing foods.

I'm not sure what hemolytic anemia is, but anemia can be caused by lack of B12, and deficiency of B12 can be cause by reducing stomach acids.

Here's another link and an excerpt that gives an explanation of bilirubin.

Bilirubin concentrations are elevated in the blood either by increased production, decreased conjugation, decreased secretion by the liver, or blockage of the bile ducts. In cases of increased production, or decreased conjugation, the unconjugated or indirect form of bilirubin will be elevated. Unconjugated hyperbilirubinemia is caused by accelerated erythrocyte hemolysis in the newborn (erythroblastosis fetalis), absence of glucuronyl transferase, or hepatocellular disease. Conjugated hyperbilirubinemia is caused by obstruction of the biliary ducts, as with gallstones or hepatocellular diseases such as cirrhosis or hepatitis. Elevated serum bilirubin test results may also be caused by the effects of many different drugs, including antibiotics, barbiturates, steroids, or oral contraceptives. In chronic acquired liver diseases, the serum bilirubin concentration is usually normal until a significant amount of liver damage has occurred and cirrhosis is present. In acute liver disease, the bilirubin is usually increased in relation to the severity of the acute process.

My side note: I know the aminos glycine and taurine play a part in conjugation in the liver, and I had posted this link on the BB, but can't find it, so you could possibly be low in either of these aminos, but I'm guessing your low in taurine, particularly if you're low in B6, B12 and/or folate. It's a guess, however, based on my own testings and readings on methionine and methylation. (see conf. room) Also, glycine is much more prevalent in the diet, whereas I'm finding that taurine could be more of a problem.
Hope this helped a bit.

[www.rnceus.com]

Richard

I`ll "digest" that info for a while and look into Taurine as a possibility.Strangely I did have Mono a long time ago(in the 70`s)and maybe bilirubin levels stay up after having that bug.

Adrian - that's a great testimonial for Paleo eating.

I agree, I feel the best with a Paleo style eating plan. I feel awful when I cave in and indulge in the usual holiday fare. And as usual, this year, I did tempt fate a bit. But I'm back on the Paleo wagon again.

Happy New Year.

Jackie

Adrian,

That's great news that you've lost 40#s. I bet you feel a lot better. How is your AF of late. Do you think the Paleo change is helping?

Jackie and all,

When doing a little reading on bilirubin, I came upon this article on Dr. Mercola's site, and was confused a bit, esp. in light of the fact that my arachodonic fatty acid is low on my testing. Here's a few excerpts, but you all may find it a good read, in its entirety:

The Detoxx System: Detoxification of Biotoxins in Chronic Neurotoxic Syndromes

To view the brain beyond its architecture as a biological orchestration of the physical and chemical constituents necessary for performance, we cannot begin to conceptualize without considering the importance of fatty acids as the human brain is 60% lipid. Dendrites and synapses are up to 80% in lipid content. Although Arachidonic acid (AA) has been given a negative association, it is the most prominent essential fatty acid in the red cell and comprises 12% of the total brain and 15.5% of the body lipid content.

If AA is depleted by overdosing with marine or flax oil establishing the balance of the EFAs is profoundly impaired. Often both prostaglandin one and two series relating to omega six metabolism are compromised when flax and marine oils are overdosed or lipid intake is insufficient. When AA, the lead eicosanoid of the body, is suppressed due to excess intake of omega 3, toxicity or disease the control circuitry of the body is impaired as is clearly viewed in the patient's presentation.

Arachidonic acid is preferentially wasted in states of heavy metal toxicity (Tiin and Lin, 1998) and has been observed to be sharply suppressed in RBC lipid analysis in states of heavy metal toxicity (Kane, clinical observation 1997-2002). (My problem could be mercury here).
[www.mercola.com]

I'll have to look into this a bit further, but my laboratory analysis book states that AA comes from corn and black currant oil. I have no intentions of eating corn oil, even in its cold pressed state, but I remember doing some analysis of breakdowns of the different fatty acids, and black currant rated above all in its overall content of the different fatty acids. I even posted how to grow black currants quite a while back on the BB. I wonder how black currant rates compared to marine fats, in its blood thinning ability? The gamma linolenic acid that I take, due to being so low and prescribed by Dr. Gersten, is from borage oil. I presently take no fish oils, nor was I during my testing in the summer, but I try to eat fish at least 4-5xs a week. My testings indicated my Omega 3s were above normal, with the breakdown like this; EPA-high, DPA-normal, and DHA-high, with ALA being low.

So, not to confuse the issue, would we be served by taking some black currant oil, as well? Is there possibly a bottom in this well of what to know?

Happy New Year,
Richard

Sammy

It is great you are embracing this new way of eating. I love going out shopping/hunting - you do have to hunt a lot in the beginning to find the right unproccessed stuff.

I just wanted to give you a word of warning about commercial jerky. Most of it has preservatives (don't ask me why as drying preserves it) and they also add MSG's. I have been assured that in the US there are some good clean products available. But the paleo site will also tell you how to dry your own. I keep meaning to try it but haven't had the time yet.

It does take a while to get over the guilt of eating all your fat - especially when it is really tasty and you go back for more. I still sometimes wonder if perhaps I am overdoing it. But if I don't do it I crave bread or cheese and then I get ill. I would say don't worry about it and read up on some of the studies done on hunter gatherer tribes who eat more fat than us and heart disease is unknown. You can monitor your situation with the help of tests and I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised with the results.

Happy hunting

Fran

I've eaten paleo style two days now and am amazed that I am not hungry. Adrian, I do think I have "joined the tribe".

'I'm really a novice---Where does one find organic meat ? How long does it take to not miss bread and other carbs ?

PJ,

It's great to hear you are trying Paleo, and I hope it makes you feel as well as it did me. You can get organic meats (not strictly grassfed) at the grocery store, but I also order organic grass fed meat through Lassater Grasslands Beef over the net. I have to admit that I prefer organic or organic grassfed, because the marbling is better in organic with some grain being fed to the animal. It has a better flavor, and I only order or buy filets. I always buy my chicken and eggs at the grocery, and make sure it's coming from free range, no antibiotics/no hormones sources. At www.westonaprice.org, there is a link to search the area you live in to find farms that supply these meats and eggs, as well. I pay about $20 per # for grassfed and about $15 for organic, so it's a bit pricey, but worth it. I have to grab it while I can, as it sells out fairly quickly when it comes in. A good tip, is one Geri gave me here, and that is to have a small George Foreman grill from Target, to quickly cook your chicken, fish, or steak. I have a larger one, too, but use the small one all the time. Another good tip, is to make up a large salad ahead of time, so it's ready when you need it for several days. My prep time and cooking meals is about 10 minutes.

It took me a while to miss the cravings for sweets and potatoes, but no time to miss bread, as I wasn't a big bread eater anyway. That doesn't mean I haven't had the occasional cheat, but bread makes me feel horrible now, esp. in regards to indigestion. Any kind of sulfites, nitrites, free glutamate, or MSG causes arrhthmias, so I avoid, as much as I can.

Richard

PJ,we`ll have to compare notes since we both started the Paleo diet within one day of each other.After just a few days here are things I`m noticing.#1-I`m feeling full for a longer time after eating.I`m eating way more fat than I had before and that will take getting used to.#2-(sorry for this one)more flatulance.I think I`m also eating more times than I was before.It`easy to grab a handfull of nuts and get full.I`ll tell you that it is an interesting way of eating.No difference in my acid production but I`ll wait about a month before I decide if it`s helping.

Richard, Thanks for the shopping tips. My goal for this weekend is to find meat sources. I like your salad and George Forman grill ideas, too. That will save some time.

Sammy--Yes, we'll have to compare notes. I have felt full all day and am excited about finally having an eating plan in place.

Richard

Yes I do feel a lot better, thanks for asking. Is the Paleo change helping? I'd have to say yes, but not in reducing my Afib occurences, more like ameliorating the symptoms. As you may remember I am relatively asymptomatic. Resting AF HR of 75-80 3 days on two days off as a rough guidline. Prior to paleo when in Afib I would be really tired and drained. Walking up a flight of stairs would exhaust me for a short period. Now It doesn't bother me as much.

But then again maybe it's more about attitude as well. I'm trying to maintain a more positive outlook on this condition and not let it bother me so much. Thanks Jackie. I'm also doing more to avoid stressing myself out at work and home. Changing how I react to my stress bringers. Perhaps it's both.

Thanks for pointing out the fact that we can go too far with Omega 3's I've been shunning all omega 6 oils and processed foods while also suplementing 5 grams of salmon oil a day. Might have to include some gla.

I should also say that I'm not strictly organic. I know I know .As much as I'd like to become that paleo hunter/shopper not quitting until the quarry has been found and dispatched, I'm still a shopper of convenience. Being an ambidexterous Scot ( can't find my wallet with either hand ) probably doesn't help( apologies to Fran)

On another note my B12 test was 962 pmol/L Referance range for normal is >150 .

Happy NSR Year

Adrian v49

Since Paleo eating just about eliminates starches and sugars, it is similar to the Hayes Diet , that first gained attention in the UK in the 1930's and still has a lot of adherents. There are several good books in paper that explain it. I think it should be considered an adjunct to the Paleo Diet.

The emphasis in the Hayes Diet is on food combining. It is especially effective in reducing and eliminating GERD. See below.

www.michaelfeds.com/hayes-diet/hayes-diet.html

Carol

Thought this was an interesting link on how carbohydrates affect the body systems.

[www.scdiet.org]

DISMANTLING A MYTH:
The Role of Fat and Carbohydrates in our Diet

by Dr. Med. Wolfgang Lutz

Fran,

That was a very interesting link, and I will be forwarding it to some of my friends, who suffer some of what is mentioned in this article. I hope Sammy and Jim Rose will read, as well as others who suffer digestive upsets.

Thank you,
Richard

All I know is that studies have shown that those refraining from eating meat have a higher life expectancy (maybe a couple of years). Of course, these are averages, and it is therefore quite possible that in individual cases one would be better off with meat. But until proven otherwise, I intend to stick to a diet without meat.

I do, however, take fish oil. I don't consider it to be meat although it certainly is an animal product and hence may be unacceptable to vegetarian purists. The fish I can do without, since I don't want to get any more mercury into my system.

I also supplement with taurine, make sure to get enough protein, and take B vitamins, along with nutritional yeast, which has B12. So I am not likely to become B12 deficient. I sometimes eat eggs and small amounts of dairy, but otherwise follow a "near vegan" diet.

On average, I would argue that, based on epidemiological studies, this is the healthiest diet. I consider reconstructing diets of our remote ancestors to be irrelevant. I want a life expectancy higher than theirs was.

Victor,

Thank you for your point of view. Being that you're near vegan, could you tell me if you eat rice, potatoes, oats, bread and the sorts. The reason that I ask, is that the commonality of a vegan vs. meat eater, could possibly be the glycemic carbs and the insulin response to this type of eating. Can you share what you perceive to be the possible cause of your AF, how long you've had AF, and how often you have the problem?

Thank you in advance,
Richard