Newbies

Greetings good people.

My husband and I are AFIB novices. He just got out of the hospital this afternoon, with a Lone AFIB diagnosis. I find the lack of pathology frustrating. Surely SOMETHING must be causing it?!

He just spent two days in the hospital, while they ran EKGs, Echos, blood work and blood gas tests. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. They told him that he'll need to come back in Jan. to take some stress tests, and they'll go from there. For now: nothing. His cardiologist told him, that if it happens again, he needs to get back to the emergency room. Is this a common recommendation???

I've been all over the Internet trying to find something to help him, and the only recommendations I see are surgical, and pharmacological. Neither of these options were offered to my husband, although they had him on Heparin and Amiodarone while he was in the hospital.

So, what resources are out there for us? Is the medical advice we've received...reasonable?

Suggestions would be most appreciated.

Sarah

Sarah,
They didn't put him on any meds? If so, what?

The stress test will clarify things better for you in January.

Debbi

Welcome to the club. That's the same thing the doctors told me as well, and that's the same thing i said: surely SOMETHING must have caused it. The state of medical knowledge concerning afib is abysmal. You will get a better idea about what might have caused it from reading Han's book than from any and all doctors. Personally, the greatest source of afib knowledge i have found has been from this board. The people who have this trouble are the ones who know most about how to cope with it. When i first found the board, i spent a month or 2 of spare time reading the old posts back about 6-8 months, and learned more from that than from any other source. Many of the respondents here have medical educations and some of the posts here are a little too technical for my personal self to completely grasp, but usually somebody will summarize and clarify those.

Scary as afib is, its not life threatening. Believe it or not, you can learn to live with it. Take heart, and learn all you can. Personally i think that the cure for this will probably be found here.

Peggy

PS: About the emergency room: That will get old after a while. There is a longstanding controversy here about how long you should wait to see if it will resolve by itself. Personally, i don't go any more. Since i changed my diet toward a more paleo direction, and added low sodium v8 juice for a potassium supplement, and magnesium glycinate to my supplements, the episodes i get are shorter and the symptoms much milder, and i don't think i need to go to the ER. You will eventually make up your own mind about that.

Strength and courage, Peggy

Peggy you got my attention when you said....."Since i changed my diet toward a more paleo direction, and added low sodium v8 juice for a potassium supplement, and magnesium glycinate to my supplements, the episodes i get are shorter and the symptoms much milder, and i don't think i need to go to the ER."
I have been 'loading up' on Betapace, xanax, and (Norvasc to bring my blood pressure down out of stroke range) when an attack of Afib hits me. But I haven't heard the V8 juice thing for potassium supplement or magnesium glycinate. I take liquid Magnesium Magonate per Dr's instruction and use only Celtic Sea Salt. The Cardiologist has me eating only fresh vegetables and fruits, nothing that has been canned. No beef, pork, poultry, or smoked meats of any kind. Only cold water fish either baked, broiled, or grilled. My Afib and PVC's have gotten more severe, (they were severe enough before), since going on this program. The Dr. claims he has hundreds of patients that has been helped. Oh well, what else is new???

Glenn Camp

Glenn,

my symptoms have gotten better since I started eating low carb. Which is similiar to paleo in several ways. I think we need the fats. I have much less trouble with my indigestion also.

blessings,
MLM

Glenn, use the search function above and look thru Fran's posts for a description of the paleo diet. Briefly, it cuts out all grains, white potatoes, sugar, anything processed, dairy, anything you couldn't get on your own with a sharp stick. Meat, eggs, vegetables, fruit, green leafies. If we are lucky Fran will read this pretty soon and give you a short course on it, she explains better than i do. Google the term, 'paleolithic diet' and you will find out a lot about it.

About the low sodium v8, look at the nutrient content on the label next time you go to the store. I don't think i get as much potassium as i should, so i drink 2 glasses a day. Afib has to do with electrolyte troubles, and the amount of potassium and magnesium you take in is important. It must have been something i needed, because i feel better when i have it.

Also use the search function to read up on magnesium glycinate. It is the form of magnesium best absorbed by the body. I use Carlson's, find it on the internet. They refer to it as chelated magnesium.

I think if i wait for the doctors to help me i will be waiting a long time. Best i should educate myself and learn how to help myself. This board is where i have learned the most helpful stuff so far.

All the best to you all, and plenty NSR to you.

Peggy

Sarah - welcome to our group. Sorry we have to get to know you because of afib...but let me assure you that you have come to the right place for information and support.

My first advice would be to order Hans book. It has all the information and background you need to understand afib and why there seem to be no true answers. While you await the arrival of the book, I urge you to get to the archives and read, read, read all of the information you can to become acquainted with the trials and errors of various meds and other means of controlling afib. You will learn quickly that lifestyle (diet, etc.) is a large and very important influencing factor.

Be sure to check in regularly with your questions. Everyone is willing to help.

On your immediate problem, though, I'm surprised no meds were prescribed for your husband but you didn't tell us details - like was this the first - ever event for him? History of this in the past? Amiodorone is typically not a drug offered on a first event. Apparently no underlying heart problem, but then the stress test may show blockage.

Read all you can so you can hold your own at the consultations regarding his situation. Many people are managed well with some drugs and others get along quite well without drugs.... you just need to have the diagnosis that there is no underlying heart defect.

If this happens regularly, you need to begin with a diary of events - meals consumed etc, so you can try to identify a trigger.

Lots of direction for you in Hans' book and on this forum...so don't delay.

And keep posting your quetions. We're glad to offer suggestions and information based on past experiences. If you don't get the help you think you should be getting with the current cardiologist, and if you can, shop around and find one who understands afib. Some don't.

Blessings to you both. Jackie

Hi all, and thank you for your insightful and helpful responses. I will order Han's book.

Re: details. He's had short episodes of AFib in the past, but he was always able to wait out the relatively short episodes (1-2 minutes). He would complain to his doctor, but we always heard the same thing: "Well, your heart sounds fine, now." THIS episode lasted for 14 hours, and the doctors finally tried Amiodorone, because nothing else worked. They kept him in the ICU for two days, and literally scratched their heads. They seemed as baffled as we were. :-s.

I had an intuitive sense that it was linked to diet, and I found myself backtracking through his day, trying to find a causal factor. I am definitely going to start keeping a food diary for my husband (Steve).

Well, I'm off to start reading through this message board's archives. Consider us new to the community! I'm glad I found you!

Sarah

Sarah and Glen

There are nutritional things that can alleviate AF. OR in my case has completely eliminated it after having AF for 20 years.

My number 1 problem as far as AF went was free glutamate. Free glutamate is found in ALL processed food from boxed cereal, bread, biscuits to yogurt, ready meals, deli meats, sausages, bacon, tins and cartons of soup, sauces, fizzy juice, you name it its there - and is also found in gelatine and many of the other binders and fillers that make up supplements and meds.

Free glutamate is formed when bound glutamate (a protein) is broken down during many cooking and fermenting processes. So what I did was eat only whole foods that I cooked carefully myself. I also eat a lot of veg, fruit etc raw. This was enough to revert me to sinus rhythm for the first time in 2 years. But I still got runs of ectopics.

I then discovered that grains (all including rice rye etc) and potatoes were causing me to have reactive hypoglycemia so I decided to cut them out and went on the paleo diet. This is a diet which means that you don't eat anything that needs to be cooked to make it edible. These foods have enzyme inhibitors and lectins so that things like a grain of wheat will survive a thousand years and still be able to sprout. Cooking them kills some of these, but not all and many people get very ill with a life time of grains. They are known as anti nutrients and stop you from absorbing the vital nutrients needed from the food. So whilst these foods contain goodness and give you quick energy the goodness from them is not absorbed into the body and long term can cause subclinical forms of malnutrition if grains have been the major part of your diet for a life time.

The paleo diet ensures a highly nutritious diet which is readily absorbed by the body and will in time rectify any bad ratios and rebalance the body. You will know within a day or two of following it just how much good it does you.

I have now been AF free for 2 years on the 28 Dec. That was after 20 years of AF - the last two were chronic, meds, side effects, no quality of life and me thinking my life was over.

I now have a new lease of life and know that others can acheive this too. All it takes is a want to do it.

Hope that helps you both

Fran

Sarah and Glen,

If one really wants to get better, and healthier in the long run, then heed what Fran has said. Sarah, you were so fortunate to have found this board as soon as you did. For me, I found it in Feb. 03, and had already been at the hands of the doctors for 2.5 yrs. I tried numerous drugs, of which only flecainide worked, and had two flutter ablations that did not work. I actually think the drugs worsened my condition. By the end of Feb., I had changed my diet, and on the second day, all my symptons of indigestion and GERD had completely disappeared. That was a miracle to me, because I had, had this for about 20 yrs, and I now believe this was the ultimate cause of my AF/flutter. Several years prior to diagnosis from the doctors, I started taking Prevacid, for what I thought was an overacidic stomach. This reduced the acid in my stomach, thereby causing my proteins not to digest, hence causing malabsorbtion of nutrients. I wasn't overacidic at all, I was underacidic. My symptons starting presenting themselves when doing something that caused exertion, like walking up a hill or playing golf. I would feel as if I hit a brick wall, and couldn't take another step. I, too, went to a doctor, and they found nothing wrong. But what really gets to me, is they never checked my nutrient status, except once in the hospital, and that was only a serum electrolyte test, of which showed fairly normal, with the exception of being a bit low in phosphorous. That to me is like your car not starting and no one checking to see if any gas is in it, but then again, I didn't think about it either. I did have allergy tests done, but nothing showed up except pistachios and red snapper, of which I rarely ate. I was a pretty good eater in the past. I would eat lots of fresh salads and meats and fish, with steamed vegetables, but never ate organic. I would however, eat bacon, luncheon meats on occasion, chips with dips, sugars, some bread, potatoes or rice with just about every meal, and cereals. No more. Well, I occasionally cheat.

Anyway, what I have found is that we are all different, but yet are predisposed to AF. Some commonalities that we all share, are that we probably all consume MSG or free glutamate, as it's in just about all processed foods, consume hydrogenated fats, eat pesticide laden food and breathe pollution. In my case I thought I had become sensitive to chemicals, such as pesticides that are spread on golf courses, as a lot of my AF/flutter incidences came about while playing golf. I could never wear men's cologne, as it would give me rashes. As you will probably read, I had a lot of blood work, urine and stool samples, and saliva testings done. These coupled with serum electrolyte tests told me several things. I was very low in B12, B6, folate, and the mineral molybdenum. I was also low in the amino acids (proteins) methionine, tryptophan and tyrosine, which the latter two caused me to be low in the neurotransmitters, norepinephrine and serotonin. I was NOT low in magnesium and potassium in either serum or packed red blood cell. Low molybdenum was the single most profound finding that came from my testings. This is a mineral that is important for the enzymes that process the sulfites added to foods and wines, into useable sulfates. It is also important for helping process acetaldehydes, produced from alcohols into acetic acid, that then can be carried from the body. Another important finding was low B12. My folate had become trapped in my red blood cells, because I was low in this. B12 is important for the methylation process. I'm still studying on this, but in a nutshell, when you breathe the pollution or eat the pesticides, your body uses sulfur containing aminos to attach to these free radicals to render them harmless and carry them out of the body. If you are low in methionine, then you don't make cysteine, which then is attached to glutamate and glycine, to form glutathione, the strongest antioxidant in the body. It has an electron to donate to the electron seeking free radical. Also, if you are low in methionine and B12 then you don't make s-adenosyl methionine, which is used in the pathway for tyrosine to break down to dopamine, then to norepinephrine (noradrenalin) and epinephrine (adrenalin), as well as tryptophan breaking down to serotonin and melatonin. In reading, I came upon a study that found most diseases, in particular Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Tardive Dyskinesia, and Lou Gehrigs, to all have the commonality of low levels of Glutathione. Our bodies have constant, daily assaults from free radicals, and I do NOT believe we can replenish sulfur fast enough to keep up with these assaults. Fran has somehow accomplished this through diet alone, and I'm still working from that aspect, but I am now taking 2000mcg of methylcobalamin (B12 must be methyl), B6 (about 100mg mixed with conenzymated form P5P), some folate, and higher doses of N-acetyl cysteine, alpha lipoic acid, taurine, and some methionine. This is coupled with a good multi vitamin, mineral complex, super anti-oxidant, selenium, coenzymated B complex, magnesium glycinate (200mg) extra tyrosine, and I was doing tryptophan, but have eliminated as I believe it was causing headaches. I don't know why presently. Niacin was also causing headaches, so I eliminated the high doses of Lipotain.

Glen, if you're experiencing more AF on your diet, you need to experiment. The fish you are eating daily has mercury. My doctor, two naturopaths, and a nutritionist told me to eat fish about 4x's per week because of this. I had higher levels of mercury. This could also indicate that you are low in cysteine which attaches to mercury to carry it out of the body. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. It was found that the mercury in fish was attached to cysteine to form methylmercurycysteine. This is good because it renders this portion of the mercury harmless, but what if the fish has used up its own stores completely, thereby not passing on this protection to you, as well as more mercury that wasn't taken care of, because the fish had no more cysteine left either. You could try eating organic, free range chicken, as well as, grass-fed, organic beef, or eggs with salads and vegetables, esp. vegetables high in sulfur, such as asparagus, broccilli, artichokes, cabbage and cauliflower, along with onions and garlic. I have actually converted to NSR after eating asparagus. See if this helps.

To make things a bit easier, make up a large salad to have handy for three meals a day. Try to use as much organic salad greens as possible. Put a lot of cut up raw vegetables in it. Buy a small George Foreman grill (thanks Geri for this suggestion) for quick cooking of fish, chicken, or beef. Use your sea salt for seasoning with fresh herbs. Steam veggies or saute in a pan with a bit of butter or olive oil with some water mixed in. Just know that you now have to eat to live, rather than live to eat. Once you get your body back to optimal levels, you might be able to cheat occasionally, but free glutamate should be out forever, as neurons may have been destroyed. If your pocketbook or insurance allow, get as many tests as you possibly can, to find out what is going on within your body. The more you know, the better you'll be able to focus on the deficiencies.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but hope this helps a bit. I certainly don't profess to know everything, and this may not work for everyone, but common sense tells me that it has put me on the road to recovery. The only last thing I am thinking of doing is having some genetic testings done, but don't know where to go, to accomplish this. I'll let everyone know, if I do.

Merry Christmas,
Richard