New to the world of "afib"

HI All,
I am a 30yo who had an episode of afib over a year ago while I was under super high stress, and being otherwise unkind to my body. I was admitted to the ER, and eventually converted on my own after about 14 hours and a boat load of meds that I don't even know.... I went well over a year with out another episode (I had rythmol if I needed it). Well sure enough, just before Thanksgiving, I began to have attacks again. What realy bothered me is that I am a mountainbiker, and I finally had an episode on trail, about 12+ miles from anywhere, and as far down in a valley as I could get (nasty climbing back out). I freaked out, it felt as though a flock of birds was crashing into my ribcage! That's unacceptable.

My doc now has me on 450mg of Rythmol a day, and I can feel it dragging at me. I'm not a meds person at all. Its a two week trial, but I'm not supposed to go on my "normal" rides for that time...this is killing me! An truly awsome friend of the family has turned me on to this site (thanks Philip!). I've just ordered Hans' new book, I can't wait to get into it. But in the meantime, I'd like to hear from others that deal with this as well, particularly as it applies to athletics. My bike is my therapy!!!!!!

Thanks,
Seth

Hi Seth,
I have AF for almost 10 years (got my first episode at the age of 30 after a weekend of heavy eating and drinking). At the beginning I had episodes every 4 months but gradually they progressed to the point when I have them almost daily (my guess is that I spend ~20% of time in AF). As in your case, I was panicking every time I feel AF but in time you learn to live with it. During the past 10 years I tried almost every approach in attempt to get rid of AF - unfortunately without any success. I guess I have tried 7-8 different medications (for the past 5 years I am on combination of Sotalol and Verapamil), I also tried truckload of every imaginable supplements (vitamins, minerals, oils, enzymes, you name it) and gave up on all of them (currently I am taking none) as they either did nothing or made my AF worse. I also changed my diet (many times), quit alcohol and smoking, also without any lasting effect. When everything failed, I tried ablation - this also failed. So finally I give up my search for cure and accept the fact that I will have to live with it. So here I am 10 years later and as time goes by I am less and less concerned with AF and accept it more like nuisance than serious disease.
My advice to you - try to stay away from any medication or at least use it only on as-needed bases; also identify triggers that cause AF in your case and avoid them (in my case these are caffeine, alcohol, MSG, greasy food and strangely, almost all kind of fruits). And don't worry; you will not die from AF (there are people on this board who have AF for over 50 years, some of them are constantly fibrillating (24x7) but still manage to have good life). Don't let fear take over, there is no need to rush to hospital every time your heart skip a beat, no need to give up your life and wait for next episode. Also, the fact is that there is no easy way to cure it (ablation may be able to help some people but it also may have serious consequences that greatly outweigh AF related risks) – I will not try it again.
In short, as our doctors keep telling us all the time, try to treat AF as a nuisance and go on with your life.
Regards
Conrad

Conrad,
How does your afib effect any athletic endeavors? I can handle the annoyance factor. I don't use caffine, ever, I don't drink all that often, I don't smoke, but I do exersice daily. Most of every free day is spent deep in the woods under a good dose of exersion.

Would I be at risk of throwing a clot, or something else, if say I had to maintain a serious level of physicality while in afib?

cheers.

Seth,

I would suggest that you try to find more balance in your life. You might benefit by balancing athletic activity with periods of sitting still all by yourself, breathing slowly and deeply and doing nothing in a quiet setting.
So many of us lead lives that are all go, go, go.

You may need to become more aware of your inner being, just as you acknowledge your physical being through athletics.

Stress is a MAJOR factor in afib.

* * * * *

Conrad,

I was interested in reading all the different ways you have tried to control afib. Have you tried meditating, breathing exercises?

It takes a long time to learn to meditate and do breathing exercises comfortably. Most people don't stick with it. They give up too quickly.

Carol

Seth
Welcome to the board. Im has active as you are and it does slow me down....abit...but not much. Continue to live your normal day to day life. Watch what you eat and if it gets worse there is always a PVI as a cure as most on this board are finding. Don't supplement yourself to death just enough to stay healthy common sense prevail. You will read a barrage of ideas on what to take and what not to. For me it did't work and for many others either. Keep yourself informed on whats going on with PVI and stay on top of which places are performing them. You will know yourself when its time wether to make that choice or not. Getting Hans book is the first step which you did. You will be just fine. Take care and happy riding!

Frank

Hi Seth,

I know most people on this forum will not agree with me but I just had to respond. I have had AF for twelve years. The episodes are now taking place closer and closer. I have been on meds the entire time and have felt them drag my quality of life to a stand still.

Let me also say that I have avoided trigger foods, taken supplements, water, increased meds until I can barely function, all of it. I and my family have been held prisoner by this condition. Then one day this month, after having three attacks in two weeks and getting no help from my local cardiologist, other than another med increase, I have said enough! I am going into Brigham's Hospital to consult about having an ablation. For me, I would rather live with a pacemaker (worst case scenario) than live another minute with AF.

There is one hospital web site that stated that the quality of life for a AF patient is less that that of a dialysis patient and from my first hand observation on both illnesses, I can attest that this statement is true. So, I guess what I am saying is that there is help out there. Do not mess this local medicos, go to your nearest large medical center.

Good luck and God bless.

Jeanne

Wow! Thanks to everyone for responding.

Carol: I've always had a tough time finding quiet in my head without putting myself in situations where I need to focus, otherwise I'd hurt myself (god I love to go down mountains as fast as possible!)...but through the fellow who directed me here, I think I am going to check out some local wellness centers. My wife is very into yoga and sees a chiropravtor regularly that has in turn, pointed us to an accupunturist....I'm exploring.

Frank: what is PVI?

My wife and I actually work at a large teaching hospital, Yale New Haven Hospital, so we have ready access to great docs and most of the latest proceedures. I must say, I think I would rather suffer whatever came my way than get cut open, but thats me. I've broken evrything you can think of from my back, to toes, but I can not deal with surgery at all!

I began increasing my potassoium and magnesium intakes today with supplements from Solgar, as well as continuing my regimine of multies, anti-oxidents, acerola, calcium and asprin. I'm interested to see where it leads.

Seth,


I'm a runner who up until the time I had my first a-fib episode in December of 99 was running 40 to 50 miles a week and doing two marathons a year. Since then I have only run two marathons, and now I'm running only slightly more than 20 miles a week, and racing sparingly, usually in 5K's.
A-fib will definitely affect your performance in aerobic and endurance activities such as running and cycling. There is no doubt about that. If I get an a-fib attack while I'm on a training run, I just know that it's going to be a long trip home. I'll have to combine walking with my running. But I never feel like I'm in any danger. It's more just an inconvenience, and yes, more than a little discouraging. Even more discouraging is if it happens during a race. That has only happened a couple of times, but it does lead to some embarrassingly slow times. It has never happened in a marathon, but if it did I would have to drop out. The fact that I have seldom been bothered by A-fib during a race, I attribute to my being very careful about what I eat and drink on the day before the races.
All that being said, I still feel there is no reason why you can't continue to engage in your favorite activities. Try to find the foods that might be triggering your attacks. Since I have done that, I have greatly cut down on my episodes. I was averaging around two per week. Now I have gone over two months without one. It has taken me four years to get to this point however. If you do get a-fib when you are cycling, don't panic. It just means that you have to take it easier the rest of the way.
If I were you, I would take a deep breath, and try to relax. There are worse things to have. There will probably be a sure fire cure in four or five years, and you've got your whole life ahead of you. Take a conservative approach to the meds. I take a toprol xl and an aspirin daily. That is all. Toprol takes a beating in this forum, but I have no big complaint with it. I think it does help at least a little bit. Unfortunately, it does make me a slower runner, but that's the price I have to pay. I'm slightly over twice your age, but I still think much of what I've said here would be relevant to you.
Good luck with your mountain biking and other exercises. Allen

Seth,

It sounds like you have a love for adventure and a zest for life and that is good. Common sense tells me however, that you push yourself beyond the capacity of the energy that your body can maintain. Everytime you move a limb, blink your eyes, speak, listen to a friend, go to the bathroom, etc, your body requires energy, not to mention the autonomic nervous system that is working silently in the background to maintain the functions of the digestive system and heartbeat, just to name two, which also require energy. The body needs fuel (wholesome foods) to produce ATP's (adenosine triphosphate) for the energy, and this energy is produced through the Kreb's cycle in the mitochondria of the cell, but it also needs water to help elimination of toxins and to keep hydrostatic pressure at an equilibrium. I didn't know any of this 10 mths. ago, but found myself (along with my wife) studying hard, to understand the mechanisms of how the body works. I still have much to learn and will never learn it all. Fortunately we have more time to do this, as I am semi-retired, and my wife is a stay at home mom.

I am a scientist by nature, but I am also a sufferer of AF/flutter and have had two flutter ablations, of which did not work and then caused Afib and more flutter, and I have taken countless different meds. In the beginning, I was debilitated by this condition. I couldn't hardly walk across the room without tiring, but in hindsight this was caused by not eating correctly and taking the wrong meds. Unfortunately for myself, I did not find this site in the beginning, because I would have never taken the meds daily, I would have taken only on demand, I would not have had the ablations, and I would have changed my diet immediately.

Stress comes in many different forms. It can be the stress caused from one's job, the stress of over exercising, the stress of indigestion, the stress of lack of hydration, the stress of the wrong diet, stress from alcohol and caffeine ingestion, or the mere stress from lack of sleep, for example. You combine several stress factors in your daily regimen, and then you have created more problems for your body to deal with. That stresses the body.

I'm sure some here think of me as being obsessive-compulsive, but I consider myself determined, and there is a difference. I do not check to see if I have locked my door five times. That is OCD. There is one lady here (Fran) who had AF for 20 yrs, and she cured herself through diet alone. Another man, (Jerry) found the simple addition of magnesium to be his answer. That worked for Michael from San Francisco and Erling from Colorado, who is 70ish, as well. Carol also had success, but still battles, with less severity. Some here have tried a multitude of different avenues, without success, and have gone on to have ablations with hopeful success. I have noticed less postings from this elite group, because several people here don't think that new posters have the intelligence to extrapolate the information for themselves, and apply what works for them, and feel the necessitiy to warn others. Why? Because they can't figure out their own situations, so therefore they don't think others can, either? I really don't know.

Even though I still suffer from AF/flutter, I found instant relief upon changing my diet. I eliminated dairy, wheat, starchy vegetables, all processed foods, sugar, caffeine, and alcohol, even though I was a very moderate drinker. My indigestion completely went away on the second day, of which was part of my problem in the first place, which caused malabsorbtion. This was a form of stress to my body, coupled with an incident with a friend, in building a commercial building, that put me over the edge.

Another thing that could be a possible problem is MSG in its hidden forms of free glutamate. Fran, Michael, and two doctors, PC and Sadja, and myself, have also found this to be a problem, as well as others. So be aware of that trigger, as it overexcites the cells to death, and takes extra ATP's to try and eliminate it.

I believe there could also be a problem with tissue breakdown, because of the lack of the right nutrients (amino acids/proteins). Amino acids are the building blocks of the body and they make everything within the body, with the exception of one hormone, which still eludes me. They need the vitamins and minerals as co-factors, however, to do their jobs. Good fatty acids are also important, as they keep the body lubricated, as oil does in your car.

I probably haven't covered everything, but after you read Hans's book, you'll be much more informed. I wish you the best of luck, and being that you are so young, I believe you can whip AF, if you are as determined about changing, in regards to the nutrients your body needs, as you are about exercise.

Richard

Seth,
Just to answer your question regarding physical activity and AF - I was not involved in sport as much as you are (although I was playing basketball). What I tried to do nowdays is not to push myself too hard while I have an episode (of course, it does NOT mean to lay down and wait for AF to finish, just don't push your rate over some reasonable limit while in AF, for me it is 120-130); when I don't have AF I can do anything.
Regarding possibility of blood clot - based on various stidies (also, I think Hans also mention it in his book) you are NOT at higher risk than normal population (this changes after we go over 65) so I would not worry about it.

Carol,
In the past I tried to use meditation and breaing exercises - in my case they are effective only if applied at the very begining of AF episode and I was able only to postpone AF (not to avoid it). Once episode is 'established' (let's say it runs for an hour or so) nothing can stop it (not meditation, breating, not even medication) until it runs its course (in my case it could be anywhere between few hours and a day). What medication I am taking does is to keep my heart rate does not go too high, so during the episode my pulse is still around 75-80 (of course, if I don't do some physical activity during this time).
But thank you for suggestion!
Conrad

Geez, I think I need to move back home to VT and get out of the stress-pool I live in! let's see, my wife graduates in 6 months.....

Seriously though, I'm begining to realize that I need to dial mysel;f back a little bit, and focus on my diet, which while good, could probably be much better.

Richard: Do you supplement for the aminos?

Seth....

I agree completely with Allen. I have had AFib for about 2 years (probably more before diagnosis) and it has strangely "evolved" into AFlutter, which seems more pleasant (if that can be) than the AFib I have had previously.

I don't bike daily (used to), but, being a 'roadie', I try to do some heavy hills and 15-20 miles 3 times a week in good weather. I sometimes can complete a ride without going into AFib/flutter ...and this is nice. Other times I will start in NSR and fall into AFlutter at 147 BPM and not come out for 2 weeks. Bummer. I also work out with weights, but not as seriously as a decade ago and that does not seem to push me into AFib/flutter usually. Altho, the intensity has been reduced.

I supplement like most on this bb, reduced caffeine and do drink wine daily (neither seem to be triggers as I have abstained for 4 months without any changes). Hydration seems to be important as does stress in general ... either physical or emotional. I've had to dial back the intensity of my workouts, but I don't worry much about any problems with exercising now. I did initially when I was first diagnosed, but now I'm pretty kewl with it. I don't LIKE it, but I'm livin' with it, eh. Sometimes I will start a workout/ride in Aflutter and stay there all thruout the session and beyond. I don't worry about "takin' a shock" (i.e., tossing a clot).

I'm on a calcium channel blocker (Cardizem 360) and an BIG aspirin daily. This seems the best combination for me. The beta blocker/coumadin and the flecanide were not good for me.... I was tired as a dish rag all the time.

Hook up with a good EP and go on with your life... perhaps dial back the mountain biking a bit. Listen to your body when you stress it.... try some different things (even change your biking routine), try to stay positive.

Good luck............. STEVE

Seth,

Yes I do supplement with aminos, but it wasn't that long ago that I re-initiated the supplementation. I traveled to CA, from WA to meet with a doctor who cured himself of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome by the use of aminos and their co-factors. (see www.aminoacidpower.com) He is a pyschiatrist by trade, but fell ill, and conventional medicine didn't give him the answers, so he went on a search for 15 yrs. to cure himself and he did. He is still, however, battling with his eyesight. I had extensive testing done on a molecular basis through him and Great Smokies Diagnostic Labs (www.gsdl.com). I was extremely low in molybdenum, which is an important trace mineral, and this was a profound finding, but I was also extremely low in folic acid, B12, and B6. I was low in the sulfur containing amino methionine, as well as, tryptophan and tyrosine. He put me on a large regimen of aminos and vitamins, but recently I have had to cut back, because I do believe I was overwhelming my body, so I'm going to take it easier. It's kind of mega-dosing vitamin therapy, to hit the body with mass artillery. I'm presently taking a good multi by Montiff, am taking B complex and coenzymated B complex every 2-3 hours, 500mcg. molybdemun (Mo), amino blend, extra tyrosine, extra tryptophan, N-acetyl cysteine, high potency antioxidant, a small amount of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg). I'm a bit different here, in that my intracellular levels of Mg. were Ok but my serum showed a bit low in Ca. It is believed that Ca can cause heart irregularities, and Mg is more necessary. I'm still adding more aminos and reading about how to restore tissue breakdown. I read so much, I can't remember everything, so I have to go back and re-study.

In your case, being that you're so young, (I'm 58, so more damage has occurred I believe) you might be served by simply eating a very nutritious diet, with supplementation of a good multi, extra B's, C, E, fish oil, CoQ10, and magnesium. You need to drink at least 8 glasses of water daily and more, if exercising, as that is very important. If you choose to do aminos, you could either do a blend from www.jomarlabs.com, or do BioPure Protein from Metagenics. This company also makes very good Mg, and it can be purchased through www.aminoacidpower.com. Montiff is a good company, as well. My wife says she feels much better on Montiff vitamins, than she did others, but we haven't tried Metagenics.

The dietary changes are the hardest, but I felt so bad, I was desperate, and after reading this link: www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html , thanks to Erling, and knowing the results Fran had with her diet, I made up my mind that day, and haven't looked back. That doesn't mean I haven't had the occasional cheat. I couldn't believe the difference I felt, and my 20 yr battle with indigestion completely subsided on the 2nd day. I thought I had over acidity in my stomach and was taking Prevacid to reduce the acid, when in fact, I wasn't producing enough, thereby leading to malabsorption problems, because I wasn't breaking down my proteins for assimilation. Under acidity is more the problem than over acidity. See we are a bit different, but in your case you weren't supplying enough nutrients to keep up with your activity levels.

What I eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner are organic meats, fish, eggs, or free-range chicken, with fresh salads at every meal and various steamed vegetables, with emphasis on sulfur containing vegetables, such as asparagus, broccilli, or cauliflower. I use organic cold-pressed olive oil or grapeseed oil and lemon or rice wine vinegar on my salads. I have a small George Foreman grill (thanks Geri) which makes cooking a breeze. We make up large salads about once or twice a week from various organic and sometimes not organic mixed greens, spinach, jicama, celery, purple cabbage, cauliflower, carrots, red bell peppers, and whatever else looks good. Raw beets are good, too, but turn the salad a little purple. I eat nuts, blueberries, strawberries, only organic apples, bananas, and organic grapes. When dining out, I eat grilled fish or steak and vegetables and salads. I pass on the bread, rice and potatoes, but I miss them. You might be alright with them, but it depends on your insulin levels. Check your heart rate before eating rice, bread, or potatoes and see if it elevates after about 15 min. afterwards. If it does, then you may have a problem. That's not concrete, but may be a good indicator. Go to the conference room of this site, and read about the possibility of Candida being a problem, as well.

There's much to know Seth, but just take things slowly, and incorporate changes on a daily basis, to make the transition go more smoothly, if you desire. Did you have symptons of any other conditions prior to getting AF, anything?

Richard

Seth
PVI is Pulmonary Vein Isolation. Its an ablation which involves scarring around the pulmonary veins where your AF originates from. Im not sure what cutting you are referring too, could be the maze procedure which is open heart,but thats alot different then PVI. Check this site it will explain the procedure in detail,or do a search on the interenet and it will tell you what this procedure is. Many on this board have had it done and are cured so far from AF. Best of luck

Frank

absolutely not. The biggest risk of throwing off a clot is when you convert.
besides, you are not going to throw off a clot. you are young, healthy
and as long as you don't stay in afib for too long, you should look at this
as a nuisance. you should exercise as much as you like. and if you don't feel comfortable taking the meds, then tell your doc you want to stop.
use it as needed Too many docs jump to the daily anti-arrhythmics.
they are serious drugs and all the more so given your age.

as long as your heart is healthy in all other ways, exercise should not be a problem, unless of course, the exercise itself acts as a precursor to episodes. If this is the case , you may consider toning it down, but
it is way too early to tell.

Hmmm...thats a lot to chew on, which I will for a bit. I'm contacting my cardiologist today to see what the deal is with the meds, and my GP to set up a echo/stress test.

Conrad,

When I mentioned the benefits of meditation and breathing exercises, I meant doing it on a regular basis as part of your life, that is, irrespective of afib. They aren't used to specifically prevent or stop an afib attack. They never worked that way with me. As you said, once an episode of afib begins, it has a mind of its own and you have to wait it out. In other words, meditation and mindful breathing both tone and balance the mind/body = the autonomic nervous system.

Carol

Seth,
Most afibbers have benefited from magnesium glycinate without added calcium. KAL brand is one to look for. There are others. Solgar has calcium which is excitory.

If I remember correctly, Bulletin Board posters report that they take anywhere from 600 to 1200 mg. divided in doses and taken with meals. Taurine helps with its absorption. 500 mg. is the recommended daily amount for general health.

Start on the low side and gradually increase the amount. There are no known toxic side effects. Your kidneys have to be functioning well, however.

Do try to slow down and relax. Look after yourself. How is your diet?

If you begin eating really well (no junk, processed foods, sugar, soft drinks, etc. ) eliminating or reducing caffeine and eliminating alcohol, you may end up with super great health, that will take you through the rest of your long life.

Carol

Seth,

Email me at Roos@gwi.net
I am 30 years old, also Mountain bike, started with afib last year and am also on 450 mg of Rythmol daily. I want to compare notes but am at work and don't have the time right now. The email address above is mine at home.

Darren

Darren: will do man, I'm stoked to compare.

Carol: I am taking a Solgar mag supplement, as well as their multi, anti, acerola (Country Life) and potassium. I have not had caffine in any way for almost a year and a half, I do love good wine, and a Newcastle after a ride...but I am not imbibing any alcohol for a while to see how it effects me. I generally stay away from processed foods, but I do have a soft spot for things like rice krispy treats on long rides to give me a break from the gels and otherwise nasty energy foods that can fit in a hydro-pac.

relaxation....my newest goal!

sm

Seth, I'm 41, just had my second AF on Nov. 19th. My first was when I was 32. Both then and now, the Dr. put me on warfarin to get me ready for cardioversion. I do aerobic activity about 5 times a week before the Af. First time I ended up converting on my own (sometime between 1 and 3 months). I had to stay on the comuadin (sp?) for another couple of months though.

Didn't have another episode until Nov of this year. I had been experiencing some "racing" of my heart a few times but nothing like AF. Now I'm on the blood thinner meds and waiting until my INR is > 2.0 for three weeks before they convert me. I've done one aerobics class since the AF and seemed to be ok. I wore a heart monitor and it did crazy readings (188 to 135 to 155...) I think I'm going to do without the monitor and go with my "body clock" next time. If I notice I'm panting, I'll slow down. All in all it's a bother, can't wait to convert.

Again, my story is that I only have two episodes in 10 years. I hope they don't increase.

Buddy

Buddy: oddly enough, my heart generally does not race when I afib, it stays at a lower bpm, but is irregular. It takes quite a bit to get my heart up to the 125-130 range.

When you say episode, are you talking about one instance, or a cluster of irregular activity over a concentrated time?

sm

Seth,

Does your Solgar brand have calcium listed as one of the ingredients on the back of the bottle? It is better without it.

I take it you are taking Magnesium GLYCINATE - chelated, Albion process?
Again, check the label to see exactly what it says.

Carol

Carol,
It does contain 135mg of calcium, but I chose this because before I was taking a serious calcium supplent (as I said, I abuse bones), this way I figured I could get a 2 for 1 benefit. The mag is glycinate amino acid chelate (400mg), yes albion process.

Seth,

I understand your reason for taking the Solgar magnesium glycinate with calcium added. However, past discussions on this Bulletin Board have pretty much concluded that it is best to take straight magnesium WITHOUT calcium and to reduce the intake of calcium in supplemental form. Calcium excites the body (nervous system, vascular system, etc.) whereas magnesium relaxes it.

Carol