Atkins diet/2 deaths

Hi:

Two deaths attributed to the Atkins diet and another person very ill. The high protein, low carbs diet is being dished.

there is a web site [www]. Atkinsdietalert.org

The 3 people that went on the diet adhered to the stringent protocal of the initial phase of his diet. One of the persons that died went on, then off then on again, she collapsed in class, her K was very low and she couldn't be revived, this is very tragic. I believe ones' diet should be a mix of whole grains, beans, all fruits and vegetables and good protein.

Just because our prehistoric ancestors ate mostly meat doesn't mean that is to be our diet as well, they had no choice that is all they had, we don't know if they were healthier than we are or if they lived long lives, so I don't think that is premise enough for us to pattern our diets after them, but, that is only my opinion.

Liz

Who said our prehisotric ancestors ate mainly meat. They were hunter gatherers. The hunter gatherers that live in todays world eat a good mixture and sometimes have famine. Sometimes the hunt goes wrong and meat is scarce. Meat does not keep so gathered veggies roots and the odd picked grains (not sacks of ) would be the staple at this time. When the hunt went well protein would have been abundant and there would probably have been feasting. What is not natural is three square meals a day with lots of snacks between. There are some people who follow a paleo diet who eat NO meat or fish. I,m not sure how healthy that would be personally - but we have to remember that we all have different metabolisms and what is good for the good is not good for the gander.

I reckon that personally I eat a lot more veggies and fruit nuts and seeds than anyone on this list. To day I have had 14 portions of fresh fruit and veg. I probably eat a lot more meat and fish as well. Today I have had 1 fresh mackeral, 1 smoked herring, two eggs, some left over mince from yesterday and two slices of frying steak. Not to mention the almonds and pumpkin seeds.

I do not like what grains do to me. They stuff up my nose, make my breathing laboured and fog my brain up - not to mention the ectopics they bring on. So from my stand point they are not an advantage to my metabolism and certainly will never be part of my diet again. For the ones who have found it stops their GERD - then surely grains are not advantageous to them.

I have often had doubts about the very low carb aspect on the beginning of the Atkins diet - precisely because of its effects of the electrolytes. Also Atkins processed foods have loads of MSG in them which further disrupts the electrolytes. However, the first person I ever read about who died on Atkins was found not to have died as a consequence to the diet. We have to remember that many are trying to discredit Atkins - especially the grain and potato companies. They have been having crisis meetings as their sales have slumped. And lets not forget that millions of people die daily - many of these following other diets - like slimfast. As slimfast is nationally acceptable and backed by the FDA they don't say a peron has died following slimfast.

There is no such thing as a balanced diet for all. We all metabolise differently. So what I thrive on may not work for someone else. You have to find your own balance for yourself through discovering what certain foods do to your inner workings. No dietician can tell you this. And that is what becomes your own balanced diet.

Sorry if I have ranted - but there is always a lot more to sensationalist headlines. We have to be prudent. Atkins has worked for a lot more people than it may have made ill or maybe killed. But if this is the case then I am sorry to say - no-one should blindly follow anything.

Fran

Fran:

The Paleolitic period begin about a million years ago and ended about 8000 B.C., that was the time of hunting and gathering, you are right they did gather wild plants, berries, seeds and searched for roots with a pointed stick in addition to hunting of animals.

The New Stone Age or Neolithic period began about 8,000 B.C when agriculture began. So when one says that our ancestors were only hunter gatherers that is not exactly correct.

If grains bother you then that is a different matter, I find that eating some grains and beans give me engery.

You said "And lets not forget that millions of people die daily - many of these following other diets - like slimfast", that is quite a statement, I don't know exactly what you mean.

I am sure, as you say, that there those trying to discredit Dr. Atkins, but what if they are right? There are many yeas and nays out there and one has to be as you say prudent and partake of our diets what is the best for us.

Liz H.

Liz - This is, of course, tragic. I have not read the details of these deaths, but most likely if they were known, the people had some type of unknown or undiagnosed kidney dysfunction.

Anyone going on any eating plan that is a huge departure from the present eating habits should have a complete physical assessment before doing so. How many really do? Mostly, they just do it on impulse.

One of the main factors of Atkins and any diet should be drinking a very large quantity of water. Many people don't. Problems arise because they do not have an understanding of why the diet works and why it needs to be followed exactly.

Water is extremely important.

Let me know if you read further about what is learned in these deaths.

I have friends who swear by Atkins and like to stay on the initial two week regimen - which I think is dangerous on many levles.

Thanks for your input.

Jackie

I agree with Jackie, in that the 2 week high protein inception is dangerous. The body needs lots of vegetables and salads, with fruit. The B vitamins and minerals are absolutely necessary for the protein breakdown pathways. When I started Paleo, I made sure I ate lots of fresh salads, vegetables, some fruits, and nuts. I lost weight, which wasn't what I was striving for, it was more for the healthy benefits, and I must say I started feeling better than I had in a long time. Liz, I agree, that everyone needs to do it their way, but what I think Fran tries to help people understand, is that the problem could lie in the dairy, wheat, beans, etc. because of the insulin factor and there being the possibility of the triggers in these foods. She tries to educate people to at least try elimination of these insulin producing foods, not to mention elimination of free glutamate in its various guises. Had we all been eating whole nutritious foods from the beginning, we wouldn't be having the problems we're having now. The chimpanzee doesn't sit down for a bowl of beans, pasta, rice, or a slice of whole grain bread, but he does eat lots of fruit and tree sap for energy, of which he utilizes. He eats termites and various insects for his protein, and he then eats the Red Colobus Monkey for 2-3 mths out of the year. He also eats roots, herbs, nuts and leaves. As an adult, he certainly isn't still suckling from his mother for milk, either. I find I get better answers when looking to the animal kingdom for answers, as they eat according to instinct. I'll pass on the termites, however, I wonder if anyone would notice if I put some in the Thanksgiving dressing.

For a good link that Erling posted back in Feb 03, read the following:

www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html

You might want to click on the other doctor's interviews at the top of this link, and read further, as well.

Richard

Hi Liz

Thanks for the lesson in Archaeology - it is my subject. Of course the dates you quote are very general and move about depending on where on the earth you are describing. In fact there are still some paleolithic and old stone age tribes still following their traditional ways - though very few now. Scotland came very late to the neolithic compared to the rest of the world - so with a Scottish or Irish background it can be shown that many have not evolved enough to metabolise the 'new age' crops - and hence why there are so many celiacs etc and those with milk intolerance. Milk intolerance actually runs in my family - despite the fact that my fathers people were dairy farmers.

All I was trying to say is that there are many diets which many people follow. I chose slimfast out of the air. Perhaps you don't get slimfast products in your country. They have little or no fat, no salt, and are full of aspartame and MSG. If a person dies following this diet from heart failure - which is very likely due to aspartame, then the cause of death is not blamed on the diet. But an underlying health problem - that was perhaps not disgnosed.

I agree with JAckie.

Fran

Liz

Re reading your first post made me realise I had not answered your assertation that we do not know if paleo people were healthier. We do know. We know by studying existing paleo tribes.

[www.earth360.com]

There are races of people who are all slim, who are stronger and faster than us. They all have straight teeth and perfect eyesight. Arthritis, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, stroke, depression, schizophrenia and cancer are absolute rarities for them. These people are the last 84 tribes of hunter-gatherers in the world. They share a secret that is over 2 million years old. Their secret is their diet- a diet that has changed little from that of the first humans 2 million years ago, and their predecessors up to 7 million years ago. Theirs is the diet that man evolved on, the diet that is coded for in our genes. It has some major differences to the diet of "civilization". You are in for a few big surprises.

THE KITAVA STUDY
[www.paleodiet.com]

Against the above background we have made a survey on cardiovascular disease incidence and related risk factors among 2300 subsistence horticulturists in the tropical island of Kitava, Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea. Semi-structured interviews concerning disease patterns were performed among 213 Kitavans aged 20-96 years. Age estimations were based on known historic events as reference.

Our most important findings so far published are that sudden cardiac death, stroke and exertion-related chest pain were non-existent or extremely rare in Kitavans. Infections, accidents, complications of pregnancy and senescence were the most common causes of death. All adults had low diastolic blood pressure (all below 90 mm Hg) and were very lean (weight decreased after age 30), while serum cholesterol was somewhat less favourable, probably due to a high intake of saturated fat from coconut.

Tubers, fruit, fish and coconut were dietary staples in Kitava. The intake of western food and alcohol was negligible. Saturated fat intake from coconut was high (mainly lauric and myristic acid), and the estimated proportions of energy derived from total, saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids were 21, 17, 2 and 2% of dietary energy (en%) compared with 37, 16, 16 and 5 en% in Sweden. The intake of n-3 PUFA, soluble fibre, minerals and vitamins was high, while salt intake approximated 40-50 mmol/24h, as compared to 100-250 in the West.

The level of physical activity was roughly estimated at 1.7 multiples of the basal metabolic rate, which is slightly higher than the levels of sedentary western populations. Eighty per cent of both sexes were daily smokers, supporting the concept that smoking alone is not sufficient to cause cardiovascular disease. Our survey methods preclude any speculation as to the role of psychosocial factors.

The only available migrant was a 44 year-old urbanized businessman who had grown up on Kitava and who came for a visit during our survey. He differed markedly from all other adults regardless of sex: he had the highest diastolic blood pressure (92 mm Hg), the highest body mass index (28 kg/m2) and the highest waist to hip ratio (1.1), indicating that Kitavans are not genetically protected from hypertension or abdominal obesity.

IN CONCLUSION, the virtual absence of cardiovascular disease in Kitava further emphasizes the potential of its prevention. Among the analysed cardiovascular risk factors, leanness and low diastolic blood pressure appeared to be the most important modifiable ones in this population. Our findings are supported by clinical experience by three medical doctors working in the Trobriand Islands since the 1960s.

[www.biblelife.org]

Vilhjalmur Stefansson spent many years as an Eskimo among Eskimos. After a year experiment eating only meat at Bellevue Hospital, he wrote about his experiment and his years as an Eskimo in Adventures in Diet, a three part series Harper's Monthly Magazine, November 1935 - January 1936

And to show how grains are not needed to give the nutrients we need:

[www.thepaleodiet.com]

FAQ
17. How can I get enough calcium to build strong bones if I cut down or eliminate dairy foods and replace them with fruits and vegetables?

I heard or read recently that high-protein diets are detrimental to bone health. Is this true and how does it occur? Will The Paleo Diet damage my bones or give me osteoporosis?

In the U.S. the calcium intake is one of the highest in the world, yet paradoxically we also have one of the highest rates of bone de-mineralization (osteoporosis). Bone mineral content is dependent not just upon calcium intake but upon net calcium balance (calcium intake minus calcium excretion). Most nutritionists focus upon the (calcium intake) side of the calcium balance equation, however few realize that the calcium excretion side of the equation is just as important.

Bone health is substantially dependent on dietary acid/base balance. All foods upon digestion ultimately must report to the kidney as either acid or base. When the diet yields a net acid load (such as low-carb fad diets that restrict consumption of fruits and vegetables), the acid must be buffered by the alkaline stores of base in the body. Calcium salts in the bones represent the largest store of alkaline base in the body and are depleted and eliminated in the urine when the diet produces a net acid load. The highest acid-producing foods are hard cheeses, cereal grains, salted foods, meats, and legumes, whereas the only alkaline, base-producing foods are fruits and vegetables. Because the average American diet is overloaded with grains, cheeses, salted processed foods, and fatty meats at the expense of fruits and vegetables, it produces a net acid load and promotes bone de-mineralization. By replacing hard cheeses, cereal grains, and processed foods with plenty of green vegetables and fruits, the body comes back into acid/base balance which brings us also back into calcium balance.

The Paleo Diet recommends an appropriate balance of acidic and basic (alkaline) foods (i.e., lean meats, fish and seafood, fruits, and vegetables) and will not cause osteoporosis in otherwise healthy individuals. Indeed, The Paleo Diet promotes bone health.


19. Aren't whole grains good sources of fiber, minerals, and B vitamins? How can I get these nutrients if I cut down or eliminate grains from my diet?

On a calorie-by-calorie basis, whole grains are lousy sources of fiber, minerals, and B vitamins when compared to the lean meats, seafood, and fresh fruit and veggies that dominate The Paleo Diet. For example, a 1,000-calorie serving of fresh fruits and vegetables has between two and seven times as much fiber as does a comparable serving of whole grains. In fruits and veggies most of the fiber is heart-healthy, soluble fiber that lowers cholesterol levels -- the same cannot be said for the insoluble fiber that is predominant in most whole grains. A 1,000-calorie serving of whole grain cereal contains 15 times less calcium, three times less magnesium, 12 times less potassium, six times less iron, and two times less copper than a comparable serving of fresh vegetables. Moreover, whole grains contain a substance called phytate that almost entirely prevents the absorption of any calcium, iron, or zinc that is found in whole grains, whereas the type of iron, zinc, and copper found in lean meats and seafood is in a form that is highly absorbed.

Compared to fruits and veggies, cereal grains are B-vitamin lightweights. An average 1,000 serving of mixed vegetables contain 19 times more folate, five times more vitamin B6, six times more vitamin B2 and two times more vitamin B1 than a comparable serving of eight mixed whole grains. On a calorie-by-calorie basis, the niacin content of lean meat and seafood is four times greater than that found in whole grains.


21. What are other health benefits that may occur with The Paleo Diet?

The carbohydrates (unlimited fruits and veggies) in The Paleo Diet are of a low-glycemic index, meaning that they cause slow and limited rises in your blood sugar and insulin levels. Excessive insulin and blood sugar levels are known to promote a cluster of diseases called Syndrome X (obesity, hypertension, undesirable blood cholesterol and other blood lipid levels, Type 2 diabetes and gout). The high fiber, protein, and omega-3 fat content of The Paleo Diet will also help to prevent Syndrome X diseases.

Because of the unlimited amounts of fruits and veggies permitted on The Paleo Diet, your body will be slightly alkaline -- meaning that diseases and disease symptoms of acid/base imbalance (osteoporosis, kidney stones, hypertension, stroke, asthma, insomnia, motion sickness, inner ear ringing, and exercise-induced asthma) will improve.

The high soluble-fiber content of The Paleo Diet will improve most diseases of the gastrointestinal tract, and the high omega-3 fat content will improve most of the "itis" or inflammatory diseases.

Should have included this too

Carbohydrates that cause us to gain weight are typically carbohydrates with a high glycemic load. Although most of you have probably heard of the glycemic index (the ability of a food to acutely raise the blood sugar), many are unfamiliar with the glycemic load, which is simply the glycemic index of a food multiplied by the carbohydrate content in a given amount of the food. The glycemic load of a food is more closely related to the net insulin response over a 24-hr period than is the simple glycemic index. Consequently, it is the glycemic load that may predispose us to obesity and chronic disease.

Although watermelon has a high glycemic index (72) similar to white bread (70), it has a glycemic load (per 100 grams of watermelon) that is only 5.2 compared to a glycemic load in white bread of 34.7. The International Table of Glycemic Indices lists the glycemic index of 11 fruits. The glycemic loads (per 100 grams of food) of these 11 fruits are as follows: bananas 12.1, pineapple 8.2, grapes 7.7, kiwi fruit 7.4, apple 6.0, pear 5.4, watermelon 5.2, orange 5.1, cherries 3.7, peach 3.1, grapefruit 1.9. Consequently one would have to eat 6.7 times as much watermelon as white bread to achieve an equivalent glycemic load. Let's say you ate 4 slices of white bread (or 100 grams, ~ 1/4 lb). In order to get an equivalent glycemic load, you would have to eat almost 1.5 lbs of watermelon or 4 lbs of grapefruit.

One of the body's mechanisms used to determine when to stop eating is stomach volume or fullness. Most people would stop eating watermelon after about 3.0 lbs (435 kcal) or say even 6.0 lbs (870 kcal) because their stomach volumes simply could not physically take much more food. Hence, under normal eating conditions, it is difficult or impossible for most people to overeat on fruits alone.

Great information, Fran. Thank you.

Richard

Fran:

I went to the site from which you have taken some of your post, I bookmarked it and will read as much as I can during the next few weeks.

The diet that one follows is of course extremly important to ones' health, however, the Kitavans may not have the modern-day stress that we face in our everyday lives, stress does a lot to our hearts and health.

I have seen many diets exponded upon over the years, the Hunzas for one example

[www.byregion.net] htm


The population of each of these groups (Hunzas) live to be on average between 120-140 years old. They all live at high elevations in very mountainous, dry areas. For example, the Hunzas literally live on the side of a mountain. A rivulet of white glacier water races past their little settlement. This water is filled with minerals from the eroding mountains above them. Even though they drink this water, it isn't where they get their minerals. Minerals must be chelated- wrapped in portein-to be absorbed by our bodies. Because this is a dry region, the Hunzas also irrigate their crops with it. And their crops chelate their minerals for them as well as give them many of the other essential nutrients.

Their diet consists of whole meal flatbread with a pat of fresh butter, sprouted legumes, fresh raw carrots and cabage, unboiled whole milk, and once a week a small portion of meat, plenty of water and fruit.

I also remember the stories about the Georgians, their diet was based heavily upon yogurt, their lives were supposed to be long-lived and healthy because of it.

I have become skeptical, fads have come and gone, I don't know, is this another one?

There is a line in the above paragraph which interests me where it says that Minerals must be chelated - wraped in protein- to be absorbed by our bodies, does that mean that any supplements or waller water cannot be absorbed?

Liz

Richard:

This is said tongue-in-cheeck, don't mean to offend, but, I am not a monkey (last time I looked) and I will pass on the diet of termites, insects and the Colobus monkey, although, roasted monkey is said to be tasty.

Thank for the link I will check it out when I can.

Liz

Hi Liz

I get your drift. We can generalise about diet till we are blue in the face. Should we eat this and should we eat that.

The one thing these 'ancient' diets have in common is that they have no MSG in bulk, additives, preservatives etc. When brought up eating a pure diet then it seems to me that enzymes and hormones etc are not disrupted. Unfortunatly, there are not many people in the western world who have had this privilidge.

Something happened to me after eating a western diet for 22 years. The first thing I did after learning about nutrition was cut out all additives and eat organic fresh food. This did wonders for AF, seizures, fibro etc (allbeit 20 years later), but left me with a bad reactive hypoglycemia. I don't know if I had this probem before as the pills I took for AF are known to mask the symptoms of hypoglycemia (for all). Before this, in hindsight, I now know i had cerrabelum development delay (the underlying cause of dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADD, ADHD, autism - all diagnosis that are known to respond to diet) . If I did not have reactive hypoglycemia before then I have to supose that the additives and preservatives in western food did long term damage, making it impossible for my insulin and glucose to normalise.

The fact that people can live long and healthy lives on paleo is a godsend to me. It makes me feel great and gives me confidence I am doing the right thing - for me. I also have to say that last week I was nursing all my family members one by one who have been struck by tummy virus - as has the whole community. The bug was lasting three days. On Saturday I thought I was about to succumb as my stomach started gurgling and getting a bit crampy. Fortunately I woke Sunday morning feeling like new. I am convinced it was the lack of starch and dairy - foods that virus's are known to feed on that saved me. Along with knowing that my diet has kept my immune system up to speed.

All I am trying to say is that a diet such as paleo will do no harm so long as you get a good range of meats, fish, fruit and veggies. I don't think it can be called a fad as so many disorders from seizures and autism are treated with such like diets.

I can say it made me better, and when I hear people who still suffer from symptoms such as AF and maintain that grains etc are integral to diet I have to wonder if this may be part of their problem too. Not that they were necessarily born with the condition, but maybe acquired through a slow poisoning over the years (meds and foods all work on the liver and enzymes).

Thanks Liz for a great dialogue.

Fran

Fran, that was a great post on the benefits of 'paleo' diet. Frank, clear, thorough, and without acrimony of any kind. I love reading your posts. You are an inspiration to me.
Peggy

Liz,

I hope you didn't take my post negatively, as it wasn't meant to be that way. I know we aren't monkeys, but they are our closest DNA relatives, and by looking to their diets, it seems to give me the answers that I need. I have also learned much from Fran, and aspire to follow her diet, for it makes the most sense to me, and has served her well. I hope it serves me as well in the long run, as I do feel much better, since starting it, but still have arrhythmia problems. So we'll see.

Richard