Changed diet this week, now ectopics have increased 3-fold

So as the title suggests.

I've had many issues with regular ectopic beats over the past 18 months. Really struggled to get a handle on them. Tried supplements, increasing things like mag, potassium naturally, increasing exercise, decreasing exercise, etc. but just can't get on top of them. I also have ME and a breathing dysfunction, which probably doesn't help.

However this week, in a bid to lose a few pounds, I started a low-carb diet. So a normal day, i.e. yesterday, on this diet would involve muesli with coconut milk for breakfast, a blueberry, spinach and apple smoothie as a snack. Roasted chicken and veg for lunch. Vegetable chilli for dinner. I also snacked on an apple, a homemade energy ball and a handful of raisins.

Nothing in there stands out as a trigger for me. I'm also drinking 2 cups of decaffeinated green tea a day at the moment too. I've read conflicting views recently on whether green tea helps afib sufferers or not but, as I said, I'm drinking a caffeine free variety so any small amounts of caffeine in the tea bags will be minimal and I don't touch either that or alcohol. Haven't for over a year.

Anybody had similar issues with a drastic diet change? I'm planning to go back to my normal diet next week which, in itself, isn't unhealthy. But I do eat a lot of carbs normally so I'm wondering if that and the reduced calories is part of the problem.

I had a heart patch on over the summer and my cardiologist was happy that there is minimal risk for me and had no concerns. He didn't want to put me on any meds and I agreed.

But my family doctor has randomly arranged a heart memo for me for next Friday, so I'm going to go ahead with it and see if that picks anything up. I wouldn't worry so much but they've been more aggressive this week, taking my breath away and - at times - making me a bit dizzy. I've had this before for a day or two but then it'll pass and normal ectopics resume but it's become really intrusive this week.

George is the expert on how to do a low carb adaptation successfully. I'll notify him.

In the meantime - I think the long term benefits of low carb are irrefutable so it's something you'll likely want to stick with. Here's the thing - full disclosure - my first afib event was a month after starting keto (low carb). And there are reports tht there is a link. So it was one of the first things I stopped doing to eliminate a 'trigger'. The reality is - it was more likely the damage caused by carbs over decades that led to afib and some triggers at that time (dehydration, adrenal supplement and diet meds) Trifecta of stupidity in my case.

The reality is millions of people make the transition to low carb w/o afib and success across many health parameters.

You didn't specify if normal meal listed is your low carb meal but apple, raisins, energy bar, muesli, smoothie etc sounds like a lot of carbs to me - more than 100grams. I was doing Westmans < 20 gms a day. And was keeping it closer to < 15.

If that is your low carb diet - you can't blame low carb.

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DavrosT
But I do eat a lot of carbs normally so I'm wondering if that and the reduced calories is part of the problem.

Low carb/keto diets can cause issues, especially during adaptation. The issue is the drop in serum insulin. Higher level insulin signals the kidneys to retain sodium, conversely low insulin signals the kidneys to excrete sodium and this can be severe enough to cause the body to also excrete potassium. Low calorie diets can also do this. I've been keto adapted for 11 years and wake up in mild ketosis daily, without issue except during the ~two week adaptation period in 2009.

That being said, your list of foods don't seem low enough in carbs to cause this, unless your intake is really very low. You can add more carbs back in and see what happens. I would guess that < 50g carbs/day is an estimate of the level where this might occur, but likely individual. This site has reliable advice: [www.dietdoctor.com]

In one keto group I'm in, they consume 4 grams of potassium/day as 2 tsp of potassium citrate powder dissolved in water and consumed over the day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2020 09:30AM by GeorgeN.

If you are taking a poll, here is my experience with carbs and fruit sugar and refined sugar:

My af marathon started after years of calm nsr when I wanted to shed weight and went on a 50g carb diet with 1000-1200 calories a day. My height is very petite so 1200 calories and 50g carbs was prescribed by my GP. The Er dr when I was getting ecv said I did it to myself. I increased my carbs to 100g and my af lessen. On the other hand, I was stress binging after a death and ate two slices of gluten-free raisin toast and two bowls of gluten free rice Chex. Got an ecv for that meal.

Decaf is 97% caffeine free. Maybe the many 3% green teas?

Plus if I was a masochist I would drink fruit smoothies and consume excess fruit and sugar. Sugar triggers my af and fruit contains sugar. Once in the hospital the Rn absolutely insisted I eat a full liquid diet of two sweet jellos, frozen sugar fruit icy cup and two cranberry drinks. I argued and she won. I made her stand around for my af and to hook me up to a monitor. Yep. Sugar is not my friend. Nobody since has won the argument.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
In the meantime - I think the long term benefits of low carb are irrefutable so it's something you'll likely want to stick with. Here's the thing - full disclosure - my first afib event was a month after starting keto (low carb). And there are reports tht there is a link. So it was one of the first things I stopped doing to eliminate a 'trigger'. The reality is - it was more likely the damage caused by carbs over decades that led to afib and some triggers at that time (dehydration, adrenal supplement and diet meds) Trifecta of stupidity in my case.

The reality is millions of people make the transition to low carb w/o afib and success across many health parameters.

You didn't specify if normal meal listed is your low carb meal but apple, raisins, energy bar, muesli, smoothie etc sounds like a lot of carbs to me - more than 100grams. I was doing Westmans < 20 gms a day. And was keeping it closer to < 15.

If that is your low carb diet - you can't blame low carb.

Maybe I should've worded my OP better - my original carb intake was very high (i.e. lots of bread-based foods, potatoes, beans, literally every day) so this for me is a huge reduction in carbs. I imagine for many people what I'm eating now is a lot of carbs still but for me it feels minimal.

I just wonder if perhaps it could be a reduction in calories. I also suffer with IBS which is quite sensitive. Probably should've mentioned that too.

Quote
GeorgeN

But I do eat a lot of carbs normally so I'm wondering if that and the reduced calories is part of the problem.


Low carb/keto diets can cause issues, especially during adaptation. The issue is the drop in serum insulin. Higher level insulin signals the kidneys to retain sodium, conversely low insulin signals the kidneys to excrete sodium and this can be severe enough to cause the body to also excrete potassium. Low calorie diets can also do this. I've been keto adapted for 11 years and wake up in mild ketosis daily, without issue except during the ~two week adaptation period in 2009.

That being said, your list of foods don't seem low enough in carbs to cause this, unless your intake is really very low. You can add more carbs back in and see what happens. I would guess that < 50g carbs/day is an estimate of the level where this might occur, but likely individual. This site has reliable advice: [www.dietdoctor.com]

In one keto group I'm in, they consume 4 grams of potassium/day as 2 tsp of potassium citrate powder dissolved in water and consumed over the day.

Thanks George. Do you think perhaps that a reduction from a heck of a lot of carbs per day to the above could potentially cause issues with adaptation? I also wonder if the increased sugar intake in the large amounts of fruit may contribute, or even the large reduction in calories. I'm almost certain my IBS plays a role too, as I often suffer with ectopics if I'm gassy or windy but I've not noticed that I have been this week on the changed diet.

I suppose it's just a case of trial and error from here then.

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susan.d
If you are taking a poll, here is my experience with carbs and fruit sugar and refined sugar:

My af marathon started after years of calm nsr when I wanted to shed weight and went on a 50g carb diet with 1000-1200 calories a day. My height is very petite so 1200 calories and 50g carbs was prescribed by my GP. The Er dr when I was getting ecv said I did it to myself. I increased my carbs to 100g and my af lessen. On the other hand, I was stress binging after a death and ate two slices of gluten-free raisin toast and two bowls of gluten free rice Chex. Got an ecv for that meal.

Decaf is 97% caffeine free. Maybe the many 3% green teas?

Plus if I was a masochist I would drink fruit smoothies and consume excess fruit and sugar. Sugar triggers my af and fruit contains sugar. Once in the hospital the Rn absolutely insisted I eat a full liquid diet of two sweet jellos, frozen sugar fruit icy cup and two cranberry drinks. I argued and she won. I made her stand around for my af and to hook me up to a monitor. Yep. Sugar is not my friend. Nobody since has won the argument.

Yeah, I guess the small amount left in green tea could be causing issues. I mean, it has been over 3 years since I last - knowingly - had caffeine so who knows how sensitive I could be to it now.

I was thinking along those lines myself early today too re: sugar. I totally avoid artificial sweeteners, where possible these days, but I have increased my intake of fruit this week by quite a lot so I guess the sugars could be causing me issues.

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DavrosT
Thanks George. Do you think perhaps that a reduction from a heck of a lot of carbs per day to the above could potentially cause issues with adaptation? I also wonder if the increased sugar intake in the large amounts of fruit may contribute, or even the large reduction in calories. I'm almost certain my IBS plays a role too, as I often suffer with ectopics if I'm gassy or windy but I've not noticed that I have been this week on the changed diet.

I suppose it's just a case of trial and error from here then.

Anything is possible, it depends on how well your body disposes of glucose. The average person in the first world is significantly compromised here. I have a friend who is a former Marine officer in his 40's. Still a beast and does long single speed mountain bike rides with a lot of topography. He could get very significant serum ketone levels just with exercise, even on a high carb diet.

For "normal" people, I would not think you'd see ketosis adaptation with carb intake above 100 gms/day (even if you'd dropped from, say 400 grams/day). Some need to get their intake below 50 or even 20 to see this. What do you think your daily carb intake is? Putting a day's intake into a site like Cronometer could give you an estimate

Davros - even people just learning low carb will make mistakes with hidden carbs in foods like onions, garlic, cashews, and even 'healthy bananas' which are the equivalent of eating 4+ cubes of sugar for a regular sized one. You weren't anything close to low carb. You can eliminate low carb as a possibility.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Davros - even people just learning low carb will make mistakes with hidden carbs in foods like onions, garlic, cashews, and even 'healthy bananas' which are the equivalent of eating 4+ cubes of sugar for a regular sized one. You weren't anything close to low carb. You can eliminate low carb as a possibility.

Thanks! I just checked and on a normal day I'll take in anywhere up to, or over, 150-200 grams of carbs. So I guess it isn't a huge reduction all at once.

I'd gone into it assuming that a lot of what I was eating was low carb, but it wasn't put to me that way, just my assumption. Well, I will take it from here, with the advice of you guys and see how it goes for the last 2 days!

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GeorgeN

Thanks George. Do you think perhaps that a reduction from a heck of a lot of carbs per day to the above could potentially cause issues with adaptation? I also wonder if the increased sugar intake in the large amounts of fruit may contribute, or even the large reduction in calories. I'm almost certain my IBS plays a role too, as I often suffer with ectopics if I'm gassy or windy but I've not noticed that I have been this week on the changed diet.

I suppose it's just a case of trial and error from here then.

Anything is possible, it depends on how well your body disposes of glucose. The average person in the first world is significantly compromised here. I have a friend who is a former Marine officer in his 40's. Still a beast and does long single speed mountain bike rides with a lot of topography. He could get very significant serum ketone levels just with exercise, even on a high carb diet.

For "normal" people, I would not think you'd see ketosis adaptation with carb intake above 100 gms/day (even if you'd dropped from, say 400 grams/day). Some need to get their intake below 50 or even 20 to see this. What do you think your daily carb intake is? Putting a day's intake into a site like Cronometer could give you an estimate

Excellent, I'll check that out. Never really considered reduction of carbs until this week, as I eat a ridiculous amount of bread-based foods, but then I also rarely consume more than 1750 calories a day so I guess if I judged alongside somebody else my existing carb intake wouldn't be too high.

I just calculated that I'm looking at somewhere between 150-200 grams of carbs per day, on an average day. As I said, much of that is bread-based, so the remaining 50 grams will be other things and will vary from day to day. So it's looking as if I've reduced my carb intake by about 100-125 grams a day this week, on average.

Davros - there are a large number of people that believe (and science may show) that grain consumption leads to intestinal permeability and allows endotoxins to enter the bloodstream and cause endothelial damage. I spent 40 years learning how to bake sourdough breads made with natural starters. (A 170 yr old Parisian starter procured in 1992) now 198 yrs old. After getting my 2nd CAC score and seeing the science and theories I don't eat bread anymore to a very large degree. I had some in Paris in Feb/Mar and some in Italy in Oct 2019. That's about it. I used to eat 1 lb a day.

It does hit me like crack when I have some. For a while I continued baking for others but in good conscience I stopped doing that in Aug 2019.

Do you have a CAC score?

Nick Andre has been reading Velican for several years now and has a pretty good handle on the issue.

[twitter.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2020 09:13AM by NotLyingAboutMyAfib.

Davros, why don't you check your blood glucose levels a few times a day to see what your carb tolerance is?

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Joe
Davros, why don't you check your blood glucose levels a few times a day to see what your carb tolerance is?

Hi Joe, how would I go about doing that? Apologies if that's a stupid question! ha

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Davros - there are a large number of people that believe (and science may show) that grain consumption leads to intestinal permeability and allows endotoxins to enter the bloodstream and cause endothelial damage. I spent 40 years learning how to bake sourdough breads made with natural starters. (A 170 yr old Parisian starter procured in 1992) now 198 yrs old. After getting my 2nd CAC score and seeing the science and theories I don't eat bread anymore to a very large degree. I had some in Paris in Feb/Mar and some in Italy in Oct 2019. That's about it. I used to eat 1 lb a day.

It does hit me like crack when I have some. For a while I continued baking for others but in good conscience I stopped doing that in Aug 2019.

Do you have a CAC score?

Nick Andre has been reading Velican for several years now and has a pretty good handle on the issue.

[twitter.com]

I don't have a CAC score no, but I'll check that out and see what I can find out. Thanks for all of your input!

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DavrosT
Hi Joe, how would I go about doing that? Apologies if that's a stupid question! ha

You are in the UK? Here is a UK article about blood sugar meters [www.diabetes.co.uk]

How to use a meter [www.dietdoctor.com]

Davros - definitely start looking at BG levels and see if you can also get a fasting insulin level - 13 hrs water only and get your lipids while at it. Betting your trigs, insulin and glucose (A1c) are all high.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Davros - definitely start looking at BG levels and see if you can also get a fasting insulin level - 13 hrs water only and get your lipids while at it. Betting your trigs, insulin and glucose (A1c) are all high.

Thanks George and NLAMA!
Davros might also want to look at Dr Bernstein's site? There is a subtle difference between normal and optimal.