In NSR - no shock needed! LMAO

Just checked twice - NSR and BPM 68 - pretty easy tightrope - flec 150 bid and diltiazem 180 bid - this combo never worked before. No ECV needed.

Great news!

It is. Proof of Natale's work.

Maybe this was all worth it.....

Now the challenge is to not do anything to f it up.

I'd love to get me some days, weeks and months of NSR.

I was going to throw in the towel on the drugs this AM - was ready to ask Dr N - "if these drugs aren't doing anything why should I keep taking them?"

Happily taking them now and looking forward to retrained heart that can go without.

Take it easy today and hydrated. Your heart has been through the wringer.

I'm taking in 3-4 liters of 4 stage filtered 'zero' water daily, about 12 oz of low sodium V8 and eating only once a day. Light weights, walking, mile swim and easy bike ride

Why only eating once a day? I went to the ER once in AF and was told my diet (50g carbs) triggered my af. That was only one ER’s speculation so take it with the grain of salt. Did your NP advice you to diet?

Wow! For someone suffering with AF like you described you sure jumped back on the saddle with your exercising. I was told by my np to hold off for a bit longer before going back on the treadmill. I got a 12 ounce paper cup two days ago and was swatting outside picking up some berries from a tree and my hr jumped to 167. Everyone is different with different post ablation NP advice. You are lucky with your groin plug sites. I have one plug that is an nonstop nerve pain shooting down my leg. I’m limping so I’m unfortunately taking it easy watching Netflix. I want to be able to bend over or swat without sudden tachy before finishing my outdoor LED lighting wiring.

I’m happy you are better.

Eating once a day (or less) is very natural for humans. There wasn't 24/7 food options in the pleistocene. Restore and repair processes like autophagy occur when we're not having to constantly process bolus after bolus. My BP and glucose are more stable and lower when only eating once a day or less.

What was The human pleistocene lifespan?
[www.pnas.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 12:52PM by susan.d.

For the same reasons you never try to walk across a river that is on average 5 ft deep, you shouldn't use avg lifespans as a guide for the Pleistocene. Infant mortality was very high and this skews the average of our ancestors. If they survived childhood and later died prematurely it wasn't from skipping meals.

Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
Eating once a day (or less) is very natural for humans. There wasn't 24/7 food options in the pleistocene. Restore and repair processes like autophagy occur when we're not having to constantly process bolus after bolus. My BP and glucose are more stable and lower when only eating once a day or less.

I'm with NLAMA on this. For someone who is unadapted (or carb addicted?), the transition can cause electrolyte disturbances which can be of issue with an afibber. These people should be careful and understand the consequences before they adapt. Much risk can be reduced with sodium, potassium & magnesium supplementation during the adaptation phase. What happens is the fast causes a drop in insulin. Higher levels of insulin signal the kidney to retain sodium (hence high insulin can be a cause of high blood pressure). When fasting the insulin drops, sodium is excreted and this can be dramatic enough that potassium is excreted, too. This is where the electrolyte disturbance comes in that can cause rhythm issues. I did have one episode that I can blame on this transition, back in 2009. I've remained adapted since and my adaptation has not caused an issue. I can easily drop my blood sugar into the 50's mg/dL (2.8-3.0 mmol/L) during extended (5-7 days or longer) fasting. Eating once a day is a walk in the park for me. In 2017, just to see the effect, I fasted 5 consecutive days out of 14 for nineteen rounds - over about 8 months. I did not do this to lose weight, was weight stable when looking at the beginning of a fasting cycle to the beginning of the next. One time, I dropped my blood sugar to 32 mg/dL (1.8 mmol/L), so I went to the gym and set PR's on my lifts. My neurologist climbing partner told me he'd only seen comatose patients when blood sugar was in the 30's. My response, he'd never seen anybody who is keto adapted. The late Harvard researcher, George Cahill MD, did experiments with obese seminary students in the 1960's. He fasted them for ~40 days, then gave them an insulin injection. The average serum glucose dropped to 18 mg/dL (1.0 mmol/L) and one guy dropped to 9 mg/dL. They were completely cognitively asymptomatic. See [coconutketones.com] fig 26.2 on p238 of the scanned book chapter. Most medical professionals are like my climbing partner and don't understand keto adaptation.

Note: I'm not saying that low blood sugar can't be an issue, just that for someone who is keto adapted, not a problem. Most of the world is not keto adapted. I don't eat a "standard" keto diet. I can maintain ketosis (with finger stick testing) on a diet that includes 80-180g carbs/day with time restricted eating, fasting & exercise. My carbs are not refined and do not include processed foods, grains or legumes. They do include a lot of fiber.

Quote
susan.d
What was The human pleistocene lifespan?
[www.pnas.org]

Mortality likely caused by infection, not the chronic diseases of today.

NLAMA has posted about his issues with coronary calcium and more recently of serial CAC scans showing reversal or a static level (depending on machine error). Part of his plan has been to put his previous high carb lifestyle into remission. Kudos to him!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 03:00PM by GeorgeN.

NLAMAF - So pleased for your progress. Congrats!!! As we know, everyone responds and recovers slightly differently. It can take some time and it's always smart not to push too much too quickly. Just listen to your body. I second George's Kudos about the previous high carb diet as well as being mindful about going too low with blood glucose.

Relax and enjoy the NSR.

Best to you,
Jackie

Thanks George - I didn't mean to start a firestorm by mentioning OMAD. Following MDs and RDs advice to eat 6 small meals a day and 45-55% diet of carbs is what caused most of the damage with my heart. My BG spiked while in hospital and being forced the "heart healthy" diet.

I recall telling my MD when my A1c was > 10 and BG readings were as high as 270+ that no human can have a reading below 130 - I had the jitters and felt weak at < 150.

Now I read 70-90s most of the time and feel great and am shocked if I see something over 110 after eating.

Most people eat a years worth of sugar (in all of its forms) on a daily basis.

I shoot for less than 15 gms a day.

I mean no bad harm when I posted. I am part mother hen and part an ICU survivor. I had listened to this board and not my EP last year. It only takes one bad judgement call. If I can prevent even one person who upon reading these unlicensed not medically trained medical advices and decides on excessive potassium or once a day eating (or less) as an example and does not clear it with their doctors and labwork first and ends up in the ICU or worst...then I did a good deed.

I care. As much as NLAMA disliked his extended hospital stay, trust me, he will hate the ICU more...especially if the next ICU victim is daily reminded, like I was, during my ICU stay by every medical staffer that I was lucky not to have died from listening to unlicensed medical trained posters. I did myself deadly harm from listening to the PIP advice. Now I will post the dosing weight requirements (not to take 300mg flecainide if you weigh less than 154 pounds) or you run a risk of a deadly flecainide overdose whenever PIP is given as “medical advise”. Also it was a >$200,000 screw up.

I’m a firm firm believer now to ask one’s doctor before starting on any extreme diet or excessive potassium experiment. For lurkers here, they read these posts and think it’s safe for their own heart —everyone is different and a diet and excessive K regiment should be doubled checked with kidney and heart function blood work tailored for themselves.

I said my peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 03:46PM by susan.d.

Susan - respectfully - it is the MDs and RDs that should have been double checked a long time ago.

The advice given to diabetics since the 80s (whole grains and 6x a day) has created an epidemic of T2 and heart disease. My AF and CAC are a result of following medical advice.

Eating once a day or even once a week is not a big deal. From dec 31, 2019 to jan 20th I only ate twice and felt great the whole time. I typically break fasts out of boredom and never out of hunger.

But 100% agreed - no one should take meds based on advice on the internet. I always check with my MD before changing dose or med.

Susan:

I am with you--there has been postings on here to take large amounts of Potassium, a number of years ago I started taking Pot. supplements and got runs of AF, when I stopped the Pot. the runs of AF stopped. I have my Pot. levels checked and I always test at the high end of the lab levels. I cannot understand how eating once a day or skipping days makes one healthy. We need certain minerals/vitamins which our food should supply us with. For me I have low blood sugar and need to eat 2 meals a day and a snack before bed.

Something “to chew on”
[www.discovermagazine.com]

This topic was actually my interest (Medical anthropology major) and I found those grad classes on nutritional anthropology and the ethnography approach to cultures and how each are related to their culture’s health quite interesting. You may find the article interesting as well.

Perhaps moderation is important. eating only twice in a three weeks fast, excessive potassium, 50 mile bike rides three days after an ablation to other topics found on this forum is not advice meant for the mass population or is long term safe for most, especially without licensed medical clearance case by case from the medical field. With that in mind here is my last link and post on this forum. Good luck NLAMA. I’m going to take some time off and enjoy my current nsr.
[www.escardio.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 02:53AM by susan.d.

One only needs to look at the fossil record. Consistently and throughout the world instruments needed for meat eating are found, not yet once has anyone dug up a salad spinner.

I didn't do a 50 mile bike ride. I did 10 and with Dr N's knowledge and encouragement.

Everyone is different. My post op needs are vastly different (anomalous) to others.

Shan and Dr N have clearly relayed to me - my case is 1 in 20,000 and unheard of.

I did the 50-mile bike ride and I did it with the explicit blessings of my EP. No one here was ever advised to do the same. But as a general rule if you're in good health other than your AF and your EP hasn't given you limitations, then there's no reason why you shouldn't do a 50-mile bike ride if that's what you feel like doing. EPs in general want you to return to normal activities as soon as possible after ablation, with the only restriction for most people being the lifting limit for the first week.

Years ago bikes were much different and you had to pedal hard, today you don't have to extend as much energy in pedaling a bike. You probably couldn't go 50 miles on the old bikes.

Depends on the type of bike. True for the basic cruiser we had as kids. Those things are heavy and clunky and doing 50 miles on one would be exhausting. But road bikes (ie, racing bikes) haven't changed all that much. For example, the bikes used in the first Tour de France in 1903 are essentially the same design as used today. Sure, today's bikes are made of lighter materials, have fancy gears and all that, but the design is the same. I have no doubt I could do 50 miles on the bike that won the 1903 Tour (but climbing the French Alps on it is another matter).

Quote
Carey
EPs in general want you to return to normal activities as soon as possible after ablation, with the only restriction for most people being the lifting limit for the first week.

Hey, Carey, do you know offhand what the thinking behind this is? (I agree this is what I've observed EPs to say, and I'm just wondering if it's "bad" beyond just losing your fitness if you take a long time to return to normal activity level... )

Quote
kbog
Hey, Carey, do you know offhand what the thinking behind this is? (I agree this is what I've observed EPs to say, and I'm just wondering if it's "bad" beyond just losing your fitness if you take a long time to return to normal activity level... )

That's a lesson medicine has learned in general over the last 50+ years. It used to be that the wisdom was bed rest for days or even weeks following surgeries, child birth, etc, but what they found was all that produced was blood clots, bed sores, and a worsening physical condition. Getting patients up and moving as soon as possible produces positive results because the human body just wasn't meant to remain idle for lengthy periods of time and it does real harm. Even if you're elderly and physically disabled, if you go in for a procedure they'll try to get you up and walking or whatever you're capable of as soon as they can.

With ablations just as with almost all surgeries and invasive procedures, there's just no benefit to prolonged idleness and there's proven benefit to getting up and moving. Simple as that.

A very well known case at the Olympic Training Center back in the 80s, took a cyclist with a broken leg and had them pedal /train daily with their good leg on a bike with a single crankarm and pedal. The injured leg healed weeks faster and the cyclist was able to return to training and racing with almost all of their VO2, lactate tolerance and other numbers intact months ahead of schedule.

I'll rest when I'm dead.

BTW -I've been in an out of NSR 2x now since original post.

Just standard blanking period antics AFAIK.

Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
I'll rest when I'm dead.

I promised myself my last post would be my last..but this is an exception to my anal rule.

IMHO you should be careful on what you wish for. Pre-ablation you posted you wish you will have complications so you can eat more of the yummy food. How did that go? I just cringed. Now I cringed again.

Back to my life...I’m logging off. I actually got goosebumps.

Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
A very well known case at the Olympic Training Center back in the 80s, took a cyclist with a broken leg and had them pedal /train daily with their good leg on a bike with a single crankarm and pedal. The injured leg healed weeks faster and the cyclist was able to return to training and racing with almost all of their VO2, lactate tolerance and other numbers intact months ahead of schedule.

This is quite common in the BFR (blood flow restriction)/KAATSU world. In short, BFR creates a mild hypoxic environment in a limb. In weight training, you can train at 25-30% of your one rep max (i.e. light or mild), but the body see's it as if you were doing heavy training. In an ACL repair, for example, they'll band up the other 3 limbs, have them do these mild workouts and end up with the injury/surgical site heal ~2x as fast (half the time), while maintaining muscle mass & VO2, etc. In KAATSU, which can cycle the pressure on and off, there are cases of using this on quadriplegics and getting limb movement and even walking. This has even been used successfully at the Department of Defense's Center for the Intrepid Limb Salvage Unit (for vets with very serious injuries). The key is to get the "magic sauce" of IGF-1, growth hormone, VEGF & etc, without stressing the body as heavy exercise would. Also the effects are systemic, not just downstream of the bands.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 11:08PM by GeorgeN.

It was a joke to 'hope to eat more hospital food' and no - it wasn't worth it. The 'heart healthy' foods doubled my blood glucose readings while there. I had gas and constipation for the first time since going paleo/sapien diet and my situation was way more dire than I've relayed. I need the benefit of hindsight and clarity before I can accurately and fairly relay the story.

Quote
NotLyingAboutMyAfib
It was a joke to 'hope to eat more hospital food' and no - it wasn't worth it.

A couple of years ago, a friend who is a volunteer ski patroller had a TIA, likely caused by a clot from a skiing fall injury on his thigh. The hypothesis is the clot went through a PFO (hole between the atria) into the brain. He realized what was happening. His wife got him to the ER quickly, they connected him virtually with a stroke specialist at the regional stroke hospital. He got a shot of tPA (tissue plasminogen activator) and a helo ride to the stroke hospital. When he got there, he asked himself, "What would George do?" Answer - fast. So to the amazement of the staff, he fasted for the several days he was in the hospital. When he went home, he went back to his keto ways and a quick and complete recovery.

If I was conscious, I would certainly refuse their hospital food. For one reason, ketones are anti-inflammatory and fasting would boost their levels.

I am nearly 2 years in NSR after my nov. 2018 ablation up in canada I am a very young looking 62 year old who has not been on this forum for about 2 years + my eating routine is huge into fasting + i have never felt better. I eat extrem. healthy power walk 12 miles a day + run a 18 floor staircase with no stopping daily along with weights but i have been a little lacking in that the last few months but will restart shortly. For years i have been eating 1 meal a day...split up though...noon 3/4 of it...then about 4 pm i eat fruit, whey protein, yogurt + other healthy stuff to finish up. Intermit. fast for about 18 hours a day...also i fast 2 times a week with 43-44 hours in
between....like now i finished eating at 430 pm wed. nothing tonight nothing thursday then friday noon eat my split meal + do the same sat. afternoon 430 pm to monday at noon. Imop if someone is not using fasting intermit. everyday + or at least 1...24 hour or more fast a week they have a big hole in their health routine providing they don't have health issues preventing fasting. It's like having a gun collection with no shotguns in it...something huge is missing....it's not for everyone cause it's hard to do + takes displ. that few have esp. with their precious food daily that nobody messes with right? I get laughed at a lot telling normies what i do until they see me in a tight tee shirt then the laughing stops as my 2 fast days a week routine i have been doing for about 8 months was magic bullet needed to remove the last little bit of weight around my waist to rip me up + my heart never feels or beats better after a day of fasting it loves it.
BTW i hope Dr. Natale is doing ok after his twitter/blm situation from a couple days ago...i can only wish him well but he deleted his twitter account.

Vanlith - welcome back and good to hear from you. The way you supported others in the past is very helpful and does pay it forward.

Fasting is a magic bullet for sure. The books and lectures from Jason Fung are a good place to start.

[www.youtube.com]

Or this video - [www.youtube.com]

Discipline is tough at times. I never break fasts from hunger but from boredom or carelessness.

There is a kind of 'high' I get from fasting more than 40-45 hours. I feel a little guilty about that.

You also get really mentally sharp and it makes sense. Many in silicon valley are fasting solely for the intel and creativity benefits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 11:01AM by NotLyingAboutMyAfib.

Quote
vanlith
I am nearly 2 years in NSR after my nov. 2018 ablation up in canada

Glad that has worked out so well. I recall when you were trying to figure out what to do!

I certainly understand about fasting and most people don't understand (if you are on meds, especially for blood pressure or blood sugar, get advice and know what you are doing) how beneficial fasting can be. Starting with time restricted eating and going on to multi day fasts. A historical read The Fasting Cure, by Upton Sinclair, written in 1911 [apache2.pum.edu.pl]

In this interview, Ruth Patterson, describes a study where breast cancer survivors who routinely fasted 13 hours/day with the fast starting before 8PM or more reduced the risk of recurrence by 36% [www.youtube.com]

Satchin Panda talks about time restricted eating in his book, The Circadian Code. [www.amazon.com] I gave this book as Christmas gifts several years ago. A 70 year old female friend told me ~3 months later that adopting a shorter eating window solved a number of chronic issued she'd had.

I'd not done an extended fast since March, so vanlith, your post prompted me to start one. Many don't think they can exercise while fasting. I rock climbed 6 hours yesterday and did a two hour workout today (following my advice to limit my exertion to Zone 2/MAF/nasal breathing). My daughter has a colleague who is an ultra marathoner. He also has celiac disease. In 2019, he did 40 day fast for Lent and worked out till day 26. After the fast, he said his sensitivity to cross contamination (for celiac) dramatically lower (when eating out, for example).

If you have the fat stores one can fast indefinitely. But the problem is fasting is so effective at burning fat that that time will pass quite fast. People that are already fit and low fat % need to ensure they're not consuming protein and muscle when fasting.

I would be fasting right now but we just cracked into the most delicious package of bacon I think I've ever had in my life. Bacon is always good but this particular lot must have been fed apples from the pig gods. Easily 4x better than any bacon I've ever had.

1 more morning and it will be gone.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2020 02:30PM by NotLyingAboutMyAfib.

Here's a guy running 100 miles in 5 days with 0 caloric intake

[twitter.com]