Dr. Sinatra's supplement protocol

Hello,

Has anyone tried the supplement protocol for afib described in Dr.Stephen Sinatra's book Metabolic Cardiology? He recommends CoQ10, l -carnitine, l-ribose and magnesium. I have been following this for a month; I haven't noticed significant changes in my afib patterns.

Since this is my first post, I will offer a bit of personal history. I am a 71 year-old man in generally very good health. My diet is low-carb but not keto. My first event was 21 years ago. At first the episodes were a bit scary but only an hour or two, spaced about six months apart. Now they are milder but roughly 24 hours every four or five days. I have avoided medications. I have tried atelolol and flecainide but didn't like the side effects. No ablations as yet, but friends are strongly encouraging that path.

Thanks for your help.

I hope you're taking an anticoagulant.

I hate meds and take them on an as need basis only. However, I am in NSR 364 days out of the year, actually now at 389 and running. If I was in afib every week for even 5 min, I would either go for an ablation, or be anticoagualted and controlling my HR until ablation. Youre playing with fire listening to the so called Dr with that basic and unproven protocol. Let me ask you this, Why doesnt his wonderful regimen keep you out of afib?

Carey, thanks for the good advice.

hwkmn05, until you have read the book, and until you have 35 years of experience as a respected cardiologist, as the author does, you may want to suspend judgement on this. Many times alternative therapies do work. For example, Chinese herbs and accupuncture got me off alcohol forty years ago. In all the years since then, I have never felt the desire to drink. Try that with AA. Many times conventional therapies don't work or have serious and even tragic side effects. I respect my doctors' advice, but I also research things and think for myself.

Dr. Sinatra may be 100% correct or he may be blowing smoke. I will find out for myself but, while I am doing that, I am hoping that someone among you may have some direct knowledge of his program.

Thanks again



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2020 07:17PM by ATS.

So I gather you're not taking an anticoagulant? That's quite a risk at your age and with your AF burden.

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ATS
I have tried atelolol and flecainide but didn't like the side effects. No ablations as yet, but friends are strongly encouraging that path.

Wonder if you used the flec daily or just PIP (on-demand, i.e. Pill in Pocket)? If it worked PIP, it might significantly shorten your episodes and AF burden. Also, you'd be taking it 1/5 days, so side effects of the meds would be lessened. You could do this while you were seeing if Sinatra's protocol worked.

I'm a supplement guy, but will use targeted meds, if necessary. I'm 64 and have had afib nearly 16 years. 15.5 years ago, I created a program for myself that has generally not had progression. In the first 4 months of having afib, I had a 2.5 month episode. It was during and after that that I created my protocol for myself. It is essentially what I laid out here for my son-in-law {edit and he's also been afib free since I made this post}. However I do take magnesium to near bowel tolerance and mine is a lot more than my SIL (like 3-4g/day of magnesium). In the last two years, I've had two episodes and at the end of the month will be at a year with zero episodes. This episode spacing is fairly common for me since the 2.5 month episode.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2020 09:11PM by GeorgeN.

My electrophysiologist told me that, considering my risk profile (blood chemistry, cardiovascular condition, etc.) I do not need an anticoagulant. I will follow her judgement on this. My regular cardiologist said the same. I take aspirin during episodes to make my GP happy, although there is not much science to support its value. I also take four grams of fish oil daily. The fish oil by itself has a strong blood thinning effect.

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ATS
Carey, thanks for the good advice.

hwkmn05, until you have read the book, and until you have 35 years of experience as a respected cardiologist, as the author does, you may want to suspend judgement on this. Many times alternative therapies do work. For example, Chinese herbs and accupuncture got me off alcohol forty years ago. In all the years since then, I have never felt the desire to drink. Try that with AA. Many times conventional therapies don't work or have serious and even tragic side effects. I respect my doctors' advice, but I also research things and think for myself.

Dr. Sinatra may be 100% correct or he may be blowing smoke. I will find out for myself but, while I am doing that, I am hoping that someone among you may have some direct knowledge of his program.

Thanks again

Oh you couldnt be more wrong, I wrote the book on alternative by living it. This is not a knock on the good doctor, its a knock on you. I couldnt care less what protocol you choose, but 35 or 100 years of cardiology experience wont thin your blood. Those basic supplements you listed are good for our condition, but I am seriously doubting this doctor or any ND Ive known would dare say with any confidence these are anticoagulants and will prevent a stroke. As for finding out for yourself, the revelation could be an expensive one.

George, thank you for your reply. I took the flecainide as PIP. It made me feel quite creepy and my fibrillation was more unstable, but it did reduce the duration from 24 to 16 hours. I may revisit this, but not until things settle down at the hospital, since I want to be at the ER for the next try. What form of magnesium are you taking?

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ATS
What form of magnesium are you taking?

Over the years, I've taken just about every form there is. They all work for me, though I have an extremely high bowel tolerance.

Now, I generally use di-magnesium malate that is made by Albion and I purchase from an equine supplier. I also use bulk magnesium citrate powder. I had kidney stones 20+ years ago and the citrate helps keep oxalates at bay. In my protocol, I also use potassium citrate powder in my drink. The standard answer is that most tolerate the glycinate form best.

I've also made bicarbonate water "Waller Water" and consumed the concentrated form. It is a bit of a hassle, though. Also magnesium acetate (which turns into bicarb in the body) from magnesium hydroxide (as milk of magnesia with no additives) and organic apple cider vinegar in a 2:7 ratio. I actually make my own milk of magnesia by weighing around 30 g of magnesium hydroxide powder and dissolving in 12 oz water, more info here.

I just posted this on nebulizing magnesium (and there is even a link on taking it by rectum). I've not done it yet, but did get a nebulizer because of Liz's post about her Dr. Brownstein's approach for Covid-19. I may experiment.

I'm not sure going from 24 to 16 hours would entice me to take flec either. I can say that I "think" taking mag at the same time I've taken the flec seemed to speed up conversions. I've also added in more potassium citrate then, too. For this purpose, I always use a powder or liquid, so the mag will get into the body quickly.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2020 09:29PM by GeorgeN.

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ATS
My electrophysiologist told me that, considering my risk profile (blood chemistry, cardiovascular condition, etc.) I do not need an anticoagulant. I will follow her judgement on this. My regular cardiologist said the same. I take aspirin during episodes to make my GP happy, although there is not much science to support its value. I also take four grams of fish oil daily. The fish oil by itself has a strong blood thinning effect.

Some of us supplement with nattokinase and eat Natto (+ fish oil) as means of anticoagulant but we are not having Afib every 4 or 5 days lasting 24 hours. It seems you are getting past the point where supplements can reduce your Afib burden much and you should consider consulting a second electrophysiologist with the view of a future ablation.
Aspirin is no help for afibbers and could even cause blood bleeds.

Thanks Colindo. After seven weeks I am not yet seeing benefits from the supplements. I have likewise suspected that the electrical remodeling of my atrial region has gone too far for the supplements to have much effect. Before long I may be talking with my EP about scheduling an ablation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2020 02:31PM by ATS.