Another New Afibber with questions & support needed

Unfortunately, I have had to join this forum as I have recently been diagnosed with Afib, but I am very grateful for it as I see I am not alone.

A little background on me…I am 55 yr old healthy female with paroxysmal Afib (vagal) and a low resting HR. I am a runner (have run over 25 half marathons/marathons in the last 15 years); do yoga; meditate, spin class and weights. I am not overweight and have optimal blood pressure and cholesterol. Needless to say, getting this diagnosis is somewhat upsetting and frightening to me as I feel like I have really tried to live a healthy life. I am somewhat in denial and think I am fine...until I feel another palpitation or increase of my heartbeat.

I recently became a certified integrative nutrition holistic health coach, so health, wellness and nutrition are my passion. I gave up caffeine a year ago but I still do enjoy good wine. My father also had Afib.

I had a recent episode that lasted 10 hours before I converted. Looking back now, I have probably had 5 or 6 episodes total over the last 2 years but just recently got the Afib diagnosis after this last episode. The other episodes were much shorter (2 hours or less). I am currently not on any medication (being a holistic health coach I am looking for alternative ways to manage this if possible). Plus my doctor does not want to give me heart rate or arrhythmia meds due to my low resting heart rate. I take Bayer 81mg/day and have recently started the essential trio of supplements recommended (Magnesium, Taurine and Potassium).

I am a wife and mom to 2 kids in their early 20s so I want to be around for them and my future grandkids so I appreciate your time, insight & support to any of my questions below. Thanks in advance!

Is anyone managing this without meds successfully or gone into remission -is that even possible?
I am hoping to manage this without any procedures or meds for as long as I can as I am concerned about the side effects, but I am also concerned about not being on any meds and stroke risk especially during a future episode.

Is anyone taking the Nattokinase supplement as a natural anticoagulant rather than Rx with success?

I am taking 1000mg 3x/day of the Taurine as recommended on this site, even though the recommended dose on the bottle is 1x/day. Is anyone taking 1000mg 3x/day consistently -or do you taper off after awhile?

Why do you recommend first two weeks taking 600mg Magnesium/day and then down to 300mg after that?

Has anyone taken Diltiazen during an AF episode and did it help? I think it helps maybe with heart rate but not arrhythmia?
I asked my EP about getting the on demand pill (fleicainide) as an option to help terminate an episode, but he would not prescribe it to me (yet anyway) as I guess that requires low dose upfront (Loading) and monitoring etc., but he prescribed me with Diltiazen 30mg to take if I have another episode.

I am trying to figure out the cause or my Afib? Could it be long distance running for so many years? Genetic? Consuming wine over the years? Aging – (my EP said it is like getting gray hairs as you age but I think it is a bit more than that!)? Or All of the above? I guess maybe I will never know for sure but of course that is the first question everyone will ask.

When trying to figure out triggers, how long before an Afib event would something be considered a trigger?
The last episode I had, was 24 hours after I had a few glasses of wine so could that be considered the trigger that many hours later?

Does anyone still consume wine/alcohol moderately (1-2 glasses occasionally) or is that totally out of the question now?

When do you recommend someone go to the ER when having an Afib episode or how long do I wait?
After 10 hours, I went to my EP’s office and they did an EKG to confirm I was in Afib. The nurse suggested I go to the ER but then I converted to NSR so I was glad I didn’t go to the ER. However, this last episode kept me up all night with a rapid/irregular heartbeat but I had no other symptoms, except extreme anxiety and fear! If I go to the ER – I’m afraid they may do a cardioversion that can be risky – especially since I am not on any blood thinners. But I am concerned about the risk of stroke or heart failure while I am having an Afib episode and not being on any meds. My heart rate can get over 100 and up to 150 at some points. My nurse said any AF episode over 6 hours increases your stroke risk! Being female doesn't help either, I guess.


Does anyone have a pacemaker and if so, does it help at all with AF episodes?
My EP thought I may need a pacemaker or may eventually need one due to my low heart rate, and if so, I can go on the meds to control the Afib if need be without the risk of my heart rate dropping too low.

Thanks in advance for your help and support!

Hi Ingrid!

I'm another newbie here and can't really answer any of your questions but just wanted you to know you're not alone. I'm a 33yr old (with a wife and 4 kids under 5) otherwise healthy male who has played soccer all his life and I am probably the healthiest I've ever been as far as weight and cholesterol. I still ended up with afib too. I haven't started the supplements yet although I may be picking them up over the next few weeks. I am sure there are others here that will be able to answer all of your questions. I'm mostly struggling with the anxiety/fear aspects of the new diagnosis right now so if you need someone to talk to about that, please reach out.

Patrick

Hi Ingrid,

Others can tell you more but I can comment on some things. I also had a low resting heart rate, about 47 daytime and 43 at night. I never found that flecainide had much effect on heart rate but the beta blocker you need to take with it, will—as will diltiazem, which is the main point of taking it when you have an episode. I used it during episodes in the several years before I realized that I needed to see an EP rather than a general cardiologist—but I had to take a lot more than 30 mg. Unlike many, I always converted when I got my HR down to the low 60’s, so in that way it was helpful. I take flecainide daily now (and it works well for me) but many use it PIP—I wonder why your EP doesn’t want to prescribe it?

I tried to manage with just electrolytes and it worked for a few years...and then it didn’t. I take Eliquis for anticoagulation as getting the right dose is so important and it is hard to be sure with nattokinase—a stroke is the very worst thing that can happen with Afib.

I do have a pacemaker now and while the usual advice is that it doesn’t help Afib at all, many of the new ones have an algorithm that will try to outpace PACs and since PACs can lead into Afib, I do think it helps prevent episodes. I got one due to pauses ANS chronotropic incompetence but I am much more comfortable with it.

Best wishes

Patrick
Thanks for your kind email. I appreciate your support. I guess we are all in this together and I'm grateful to have this forum for both support and education about Afib. I read your post and am wondering if you had your follow up with your EP yet. Sounds like you are healthy and active so you definitely have that going for you. I totally understand and can relate to the anxiety and fear you have. Have you tried meditating or breathing exercises. I use an app called Insight and it has short guided meditations and breathing exercises that help me whenever I get anxious about it. I'm hoping we both can find a way to reduce or even eliminate further episodes all together. Peace and health to you!

Ingrid,

I did follow up with my EP. At this point he says there is really nothing to do. I've only had one episode and the chance that we get lucky with an event monitor, even if I wear it for a month, is so low that it doesn't really make sense. My resting HR is between 55-65 and at night it can get as low as 48. Drugs to prevent episodes seem silly given I have only had one and have no real idea of how frequently they may happen. I was symptomatic (palpitations, sweating) but didn't get light headed, nauseous, or pass out so he thinks I'll probably know when I have another episode. He wants me to try to catch it on either an Apple Watch 4G (do not recommend wearing it all the time as it made my anxiety about all this worse) or Kardia portable EKG so I could share it with him. He didn't even schedule a follow up as he doesn't want me to come back in if I don't have another episode before the follow up appointment would be. So for now, I'm kinda in limbo. I hope I get lucky and I don't have another episode for a couple of years. But I'm trying to get my mind prepared for the anxiety/fear that might accompany that episode. Between the tips I get here and from some other support group sites, I've started to get a bit better about anxiety, but it's still very much there. I try to do some deep breathing everyday, but need to find a meditation routine. I hope we can be a resource for each other as well. Peace and health to you as well.

Patrick

Daisy
Thanks for your response. It was very helpful. Do you still have AF episodes? Do you have any side effects from the flecainide or Eloquis? How long did you have Afib before you had the pacemaker and how long have you had Afib for?
Ingrid

Patrick
My EP had me wear an event monitor 3 different times and I never had an AF episode. I bought Kardia for $99 and when I had my last episode I recorded it with that and emailed it to their cardiologist and my EP and both confirmed it was an Afib episode. I guess you would probably know when you have another one though. But here's hoping it was a 1 time event for you.

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Ingrid
Daisy
Thanks for your response. It was very helpful. Do you still have AF episodes? Do you have any side effects from the flecainide or Eloquis? How long did you have Afib before you had the pacemaker and how long have you had Afib for?
Ingrid

I haven’t had one since January, and that was at a time I had some flu-like illness—inflammation and dehydration can bring it on. I take a fairly low dose of flecainide (75mg twice daily) and don’t notice any side effects though I did when I was on 100 mg twice daily. No side effects from Eliquis. Even if I cut myself I don’t have more bleeding. I have only had the pacemaker a bit less than a year and I’ve had Afib for 9 years. The pacemaker also uploads its data to the manufacturer as well as my EP every night. I’ve never had a lot of episodes as after I saw an EP who put me on flecainide, I’ve been well controlled—but since it will fail sooner or later, I will be seeking an ablation from D. Natale in the future.

Another paroxysmal Afibber here with low HR (routinely in 40's during daytime, to be specific). For the past 2 years I have been in remission with moderate diet and lifestyle modification. I believe the low HR entails some special considerations concerning certain supplements, rhythm control drugs, and pacemakers.

Here is what I have been told by several EPs and what my own research has found. The low HR (bradycardia) situation needs to be thoroughly examined for structural heart issues, and even if none are found careful monitoring should be used with flecainide. Flecainide toxicity is associated with bradycardia, but even standard therapeutic levels can aggravate it. Note that pill-in-the-pocket is a large dose, something to be especially concerned about. Other rhythm control drugs like propafenone have a beta blocking effect which could directly affect the bradycardia. One possibility is a pacemaker to set a floor on your HR, which would then allow more flexibility with rhythm and also rate control drugs if needed. It sounds like your EP is knowledgable. As for the supplements, magnesium has calcium channel blocking effect, and megadosing can affect bradycardia. I would consult your EP about this as well.

What has worked for me is detraining, and removing dairy, caffeine and alcohol from my diet. I have done enough repeated trials to convince myself that these impact my episodes although with some uncertain level of effect and delay. I would avoid keto and fasting for various reasons with the possible exception of the need to lose weight. If my diet and lifestyle approach fails at some point, given my low but asymptomatic HR, I would pursue an ablation with one of the top tier EPs, and try to bypass the meds and avoid the pacemaker. Anticoagulation for stroke prevention associated with Afib is determined primarily by your CHA2DS2-VASc score, not your Afib symptoms or burden (duration, frequency, etc.). Aspirin is not considered effective for this purpose. The newer NOACs are preferred over the traditional warfarin. Nattokinase seems promising and there is some evidence for it, but I would take a NOAC if mandated by CHADS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2019 06:44PM by safib.

Understand your anxiety, Ingrid. As you learn more about it anxiety will reduce - at least it is the case with me.

I use breathing. Don't really know if it helps but i feel that it does.
GeorgeN has posted quite a bit of info about it and other non drug strategies. There is also another person (can't recall his name right now) on this forum who says that his 'alternative' way keeps his AF away. Unfortunately, he doesn't post much these days. Someone will be able to link?
[www.afibbers.org]
Best wishes!

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safib
Anticoagulation for stroke prevention associated with Afib is determined primarily by your CHA2DS2-VASc score, not your Afib symptoms or burden (duration, frequency, etc.). Aspirin is not considered effective for this purpose. The newer NOACs are preferred over the traditional warfarin. Nattokinase seems promising and there is some evidence for it, but I would take a NOAC if mandated by CHADS.

Pretty sure the cardiologist told me to anti-coagulate if/when my Afib lasts for more than 2 hours regardless of Scores? Have i got that wrong?

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Joe

Pretty sure the cardiologist told me to anti-coagulate if/when my Afib lasts for more than 2 hours regardless of Scores? Have i got that wrong?[/quote


I have had one Afib episode back in November 2018. I took Eliquis for about 3 months until the EP told me to stop and only start again if I had another episode.

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Ingrid
Is anyone managing this without meds successfully or gone into remission -is that even possible?am hoping to ma
I nage this without any procedures or meds for as long as I can as I am concerned about the side effects, but I am also concerned about not being on any meds and stroke risk especially during a future episode.

I started this journey 15 years ago at age 49. I was chronically fit, for example competing in the Pikes Peak Ascent race (13.3 miles, 7800' elevation gain topping out at 14, 100') I am vagal. After 2 months of 6-9 hour episodes, I had an episode that lasted 2.5 months and was terminated with 300 mg flecainide. During the long episode, the EP suggested I remain out of rhythm. I proposed a "Plan B" which included a) detraining from endurance exercise (if genetically predisposed, can lead to afib) b) staying in rhythm using electrolytes (I didn't have a detailed plan when I said this) and a prescription for PIP (on-demand) flecainide). <[www.afibbers.org] He agreed and I worked out my electrolyte protocol over time to include magnesium to bowel tolerance, 4 g or potassium as citrate powder dissolved in a liter of water that I drink over the day and 4 g/day of taurine powder. While not in perfect remission, my afib burden is something less than 0.02%, last time I worked it out. I also avoid intake of high calcium foods (dairy). For me, the excess calcium is a trigger. I remain very fit. The product of duration and intensity in exercise is a trigger. So I can do Tabatas, rock climb fasted all day, ski the steeps all day off piste, but joining my friends on a century ride is off limits. So is skinning up and skiing down. I can go for long, low intensity hikes and backpacks. I do not use anticoagulation since episodes are few and far between and my Chads2VaSc score is 0. My resting heart rate is in the 40's, sometimes dropping into the high 30's during sleep. My heart rate is not an issue for me.

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Is anyone taking the Nattokinase supplement as a natural anticoagulant rather than Rx with success?

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Could it be long distance running for so many years? Genetic? Consuming wine over the years?

Yes, endurance exercise can be an issue, likely combined with genes <[afibbers.org] Alcohol may or may not be, very individual, unless you are overdoing it, then yes.

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When trying to figure out triggers, how long before an Afib event would something be considered a trigger?
The last episode I had, was 24 hours after I had a few glasses of wine so could that be considered the trigger that many hours later?

In the case of heavy exercise, it can be several days, in my experience.

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Does anyone still consume wine/alcohol moderately (1-2 glasses occasionally) or is that totally out of the question now?

I can without issue. However I'd try to get to a state of remission by not consuming, then add back in and see if it is a trigger.

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When do you recommend someone go to the ER when having an Afib episode or how long do I wait?

Past my first episode, I've never gone to the ER.

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Does anyone have a pacemaker and if so, does it help at all with AF episodes?

Pacemakers set a floor on heart rate, they do not impact rhythm. The reason to have a pacemaker is you get long pauses, especially during sleep. I've worn monitors, it is not an issue for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2019 04:58AM by GeorgeN.

Hi, Ingrid.
Not many things to add after previous posts, but here's my answer to some of your questions, based on my own experience.
Afib in my family (both parents). Genetics predispose us to afib, and endurance exercise (road cycling for me) contributes to make it appear quite early in our life (57 for me). My parents likely got it in their 70ies. It seems low HR at rest is a possible culprit.

Alcohol is bad. I don't think a couple glasses of beer or wine trigger afib by themselves. It's while our body tries to get rid of alcohol that things usually go wrong. It's got to see with dehydration. One glass of wine at noon, followed by good hydration is usually manageable. Two are more risky. The later in the day, the worst. Drinking water during the night doesn't help, because it means poor sleep. And poor sleep is favouring afib.

Coffee does nothing for me. Heavy meals, late meals, wheat flour, high calcium intake, infections and great tiredness are to avoid.

I don't take meds any more. They do nothing except bad side effects.
Supplements don't work the same for everyone. For me, taurine and potassium are bad. They increase my ectopics. Mg is fine, giving me better sleep and preventing constipation, unless I take high doses ( say, more than 1g/ day), which increases ectopics at rest.
This winter, I took D3 and K2 vitamins. Probably good or, at least, harmless. Stopped in the summer, since I get far more sunlight.

I've had 4 ablations. Still afib but of short duration (20' to 2h), always self convert. Usually come and go very early in the morning (1-3AM).
Other than that I'm fine.

Welcome here and happy reading. Lots of information to find, great community.

Safib
Thank you so much for your response and sorry for my delayed acknowledgment. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and found it encouraging to me and my plan to try and treat my Afib with diet, lifestyle and supplements for now versus medication, pacemaker or an ablation.

When you say detraining - what specifically do you mean by that?

Thanks!
Ingrid

George
Thank you for your response to all of my questions last week and sorry for my delayed acknowledgement! I truly appreciate your insight. It has been very helpful to me - not only from an educational standpoint, but also putting my mind & anxiety over my Afib at ease a bit. I'm hoping to stay in remission as long as I can with just diet, lifestyle and supplements. Again, I appreciate your response and am grateful to have a forum like this for support.

thanks again!

Ingrid

Pompon
Thank you for your detailed response and apologies for my delay acknowledging it.

It is comforting to know that I am not alone and that you too had a genetic predisposition to Afib as well as knowing that endurance exercise can possible contribute to this. Although, I thought running long distance for all those years was good for me!!

Glad to hear you are managing this without meds. I read so much about the negative side affects so hoping to be able to manage this for as long as I can without meds or an ablation. thanks again for your support.

Ingrid

Although, I thought running long distance for all those years was good for me!!

It's frustrating thinking healthy habits may make things go wrong...
But there's a good new : afib and ectopics are usually harmless for a healthy heart.
I've just changed my training habits : I don't try to ride faster or for hours. I just care keeping my heart healthy with short rides or quiet touring. It's fun too !

Hello Ingrid.

As stated endurance athletes can develop afib. That coupled with genetics can add to the issue. I was diagnosed at a young age. My mother developed afib some over 20+ years later.

I also identified milk, MSG, alcohol as triggers for me in the early days.

Lots of good information here and many willing to share.

Thanks RocketRitch for your response. How young were you when you developed Afib. How many years have you had it and are you managing it with meds, or have you had an ablation or do you just avoid your triggers? Do you have episodes any more?

Early 20's.
I've had 4 ablations (2009, 2x 2018 & 2019),the latest this past July. Currently on eleqis and 25 mg metoprolol. Sinus rhythm,fingers crossed.

Welcome Ingrid,

Like many others, it sounds like you may have won the genetic lottery. Having children myself I've thought about how it could impact them in the future. I've read that gene mutations via familial links could explain the root cause for up to 30% of those living with lone afib.

Did your dad end up having an ablation to treat the afib?

Along with an echo, blood tests, etc.—that you've likely already had done—I would take a home sleep study to eliminate OSA as a contributing factor. I had none of the usual symptoms of OSA but was nonetheless diagnosed. The interesting thing was that it was never proposed to me to have a sleep study by any cardiologist until I visited Dr. Natale. I suspect this led to the afib progressing at a faster rate but who knows.

I tried, and still try, natural methods but recently (four years after the initial diagnoses) had an ablation. I decided on an ablation for three reasons:
1. Nothing else was working.
2. I didn't want to take antiarrhythmic drugs, especially long term.
3. Afib is a progressive disease that causes structural, electrical and autonomic nerve activation changes (remodeling).

DISCLAIMER: I'm a lay person so take everything I say with a sprinkle of skepticism, but there appears to be a consensus among the pros that the difficulty of the ablation procedure corelates directly to the progression and severity of the afib. So it follows that the chances of a successful ablation are greater the earlier it is performed and the studies seem to bear this out.

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Ingrid
I’m afraid they may do a cardioversion that can be risky – especially since I am not on any blood thinners.

Both times I've been converted I was told I needed to be on anticoagulants for a minimum of 3 weeks.


All the best

Leo
Thanks for your response.

I will look into a sleep study to rule out OSA.

I have heard of a few people mention Dr Natale - I guess he is the world renowned EP Afib expert and I believe based in Austin. Did you travel there to have your ablation done by Dr Natale? He must be hard to get into. Was that a long process. I am located in Orlando and have a hard time getting in to see my EP here as he is so busy. I had my last Afib episode July 20 and can't get in to see him about that until end of Sept!

I would definitely consider an ablation over taking meds long term. I hope your ablation continues to be a success!


Also - the 2 times you were converted, were you on anticoagulants prior to being converted or just for the 3 weeks after?

Thanks
Ingrid

Thanks for the kind words. I did travel to see Dr. Natale but I was only about 4 hours from Austin at the time. If I remember correctly it took about two months to get in and if I ever need a follow-up procedure I don't care where I live, I will go back to see him. I may be misquoting but I thought his nurse said he performs around 500 a year.

I was required to be on the anticoagulants three weeks prior to the cardioversion so if any blood clots had formed they wouldn't be dislodged. I think is some cases they will do a TEE first to verify no clots have formed. They weren't bad, but I only stayed in NSR for four hours after the first cardioversion while taking no antiarrhythmia medication, and around one month after the second while taking sotalol.

Following the cardioversions my cardiologist put me on a beta blocker to control my HR and give me time to figure out how I wanted to proceed. Around the five month mark of persistent afib I scheduled an ablation with Dr. Natale. By the time I went in for the procedure I had been in persistent afib for seven months with a left atrium around 50mm. I just had a follow-up echo and it's decreased to 36mm. I had the procedure about six months ago and so far so good.

Hi Ingrid
Welcome to the club🤨
Each of us has different ways to tackle this nasty beast. What works for one may not work for another, but the advice on this site is beneficial because you can gain plenty of insight into the different methods others use to control their symptoms.
Fear and anxiety are a natural response when it involves ones heart. After 15 years of AF with episodes 4-5 times a month you’d think I would be used to it, but I still get a bit anxious when I have an episode. I’m in AF as I write, very chaotic and last reading, heart rate 178bpm.
You will handle it easier the more you know about it. Read all you can. There is a wealth of info here to start you off. The essential trio is excellent, not a cure obviously, but it does help. It’s a matter of trying different supplements to ascertain what works for you. I’m surprised you’re not on anticoagulants if you are having regular episodes as the risk of stroke with AF is high.
All the best.

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JoyWin
Hi Ingrid
Welcome to the club🤨
Each of us has different ways to tackle this nasty beast. What works for one may not work for another, but the advice on this site is beneficial because you can gain plenty of insight into the different methods others use to control their symptoms.
Fear and anxiety are a natural response when it involves ones heart. After 15 years of AF with episodes 4-5 times a month you’d think I would be used to it, but I still get a bit anxious when I have an episode. I’m in AF as I write, very chaotic and last reading, heart rate 178bpm.
You will handle it easier the more you know about it. Read all you can. There is a wealth of info here to start you off. The essential trio is excellent, not a cure obviously, but it does help. It’s a matter of trying different supplements to ascertain what works for you. I’m surprised you’re not on anticoagulants if you are having regular episodes as the risk of stroke with AF is high.
All the best.

JoyWin
Thanks for your response. I appreciate it and am reading all I can to get insight into what is working for everyone else. I am sorry you are currently in Afib - hope that converts soon.
How 'young' were you when you were diagnosed with Afib? What meds are you on to control it? Have you always had that many episodes per month or has it progressed? Have you had an ablation?

I have yet to see my EP since the last episode where it was confirmed I had Afib however, I went to my PCP and she prescribed Eliquis so I am planning to start that. Have you taken that by chance?

Thanks again! Ingrid

Hi again Ingrid,

I suspect I probably had AF when I was in my 30’s but always diagnosed as anxiety.

Officially diagnosed when I was 60. I take Metoprolol a BB, but very small dose, and Eliquis which I’ve been taking for around 5 years I think. Because of neurological condition I don’t do well on drugs so only take what I think can give me some control. I also take Taurine, Magnesium, Potassium, B12 (I’m vegetarian) D3, K2, and a good multi vitamin.
You need to keep well hydrated. See if you can pick up on your triggers. My episodes are mostly tied up with my gut, eating too much or too fast, chocolate sometimes, coffee sometimes, exercise sometimes, it’s all a bit random but I try to keep on top of it.

My episodes used to be around once a month, so they have progressed, but still not chronic. I think eating well, exercise and keeping on top of stress are all important, however having said all of that it can come on for no reason whatsoever. I’m pretty much aware when I’m going to get an episode as I feel sort of ‘full’ like I will pop, and a bit disgruntled.

I never went down the Ablation path because my then Cardiologist told me it wasn’t for me. I wish I had known what I now know and just gone ahead and had one anyway.

Take care.

hello Ingrid, I’m also new to this (joined 22/07) but anyways I’ll share how I try to cope... I’m 60 by the way so it’s a little more expected at my age.
I refuse to take any drugs, it was bad enough going twice to ER and being given drip of amiodarone to get back in SR...
So in my case I drastically changed my lifestyle and stopped all alcohol, tobacco, reduced coffee and avoid Robusta (most commercial coffee outlets) in favour of Arabica, etc.
Stress is probably the hardest to come to grips with...
Other than that, I found Coq10 was pretty good along with Magnesium, D3 and B complex... I also drink fairly regularly wenxinkeli, a chinese herbs mixture which I find quite soothing and as of today Astragalus granules - see another post of mine on this for details... Bought some taurine the other day as I read it could be beneficial for sleep - mine isnt that great - and some ganoderma... Thats about it, I have fairly fast HR in the day, which can be uncomfortable but no Afib proper since December 31 2018... Touch wood!
All the best!

Chris

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chrrev
hello Ingrid, I’m also new to this (joined 22/07) but anyways I’ll share how I try to cope... I’m 60 by the way so it’s a little more expected at my age.
I refuse to take any drugs, it was bad enough going twice to ER and being given drip of amiodarone to get back in SR...
So in my case I drastically changed my lifestyle and stopped all alcohol, tobacco, reduced coffee and avoid Robusta (most commercial coffee outlets) in favour of Arabica, etc.
Stress is probably the hardest to come to grips with...
Other than that, I found Coq10 was pretty good along with Magnesium, D3 and B complex... I also drink fairly regularly wenxinkeli, a chinese herbs mixture which I find quite soothing and as of today Astragalus granules - see another post of mine on this for details... Bought some taurine the other day as I read it could be beneficial for sleep - mine isnt that great - and some ganoderma... Thats about it, I have fairly fast HR in the day, which can be uncomfortable but no Afib proper since December 31 2018... Touch wood!
All the best!

Chris -
thank you so much for your response. I will check out your other post as I wanted to look into Wenxin Keli. Wishing you continued Afib free days ahead...

Ingrid

From experience I can add most ERs won’t convert unless you are on thinners or they admit you first for a short esophagus ultrasound to rule out Clots. Or if you can convince them you know when you are in AF and can produce a strip proving being in NSR the past 48 hours. I was lucky in 2005 being a beta tester for Afib monitors and got a few free ones from different companies to try out. Research the archives for the AF monitor reports back in 2006-2007 if you like to get some info if it’s for you. I get peace of mind knowing if I am in AF or not to make the right decision to go to the ER. Another advantage is if you have a nice dr you can email the strips for a fast decision from them. Before I went on Eliquis I took daily readings to prove to the ER I was in NSR the past 48 hours. The only time the ER was concerned was when I got AF a week after a 22 hour flight. So I took the ultrasound test and was converted.

I now have the Apple Watch 4. If you are still the artifact is minimal. My EP has one and saw my readings. One piece of advice is if you ever call Apple support and tell them you were diagnosed with AF they are not allowed to discuss the watch. I had a glitch setting up an alert to vibrate me when my HR was under 50 or over 100.

Thank you Susan for your response! It is very helpful. I appreciate it. I do have Kardia mobile EKG which tells me when I am in AF and I can usually tell as well but helpful to have the strips to back it up. I do not have the Apple Watch 4 though so I may need to invest in that.

thanks again!

Ingrid

Hi Ingrid,

Reading this thread reminds me that it would be useful to at least know the age of onset of AF for each person posting, and gender; there are so many variations on the AF theme. Until recently, most research on AF targeted elder males and did not address my demographic (relatively young, fit healthy woman, no enlarged heart). I think it's important to keep that in mind when doing your own research.
I am 49, female, first diagnosed w paroxysmal at 30, elite circus artist and skier / hiker. I don't drink. My body can't handle caffeine well. I love dark chocolate, but have inconsistently limited my intake. I've been avoiding an ablation for about 10 years. There have been stressful times where I might have put myself on the operating table due to lower quality of life due to AF. I've also gone for 8 months at a stretch, a few times, without a single episode.

I would whisper that i am in remission (super exciting). But I won't be able to confirm that really until the new year, since my last episode was a few months ago.

I follow many of the protocols that George has explored, although probably a little bit less astutely. I keep a body log to record AF and all things physical. A year ago I switched to exclusive nasal breathing, even when ski-touring; aside from all the CO2 tolerance etc, it acts like a natural heart-rate limiter. So that even if my brain is ambitious, or my old habits of pushing myself kick in, my heart & nervous system can only be so stressed while nasal breathing. And, as my Somatic Experiencing GP remarked; evolutionarily, it should only be a rare occasion when our system needs to breath thru the mouth.
I'm also experimenting with a narrow window for eating, which many on this community already do. If nothing else, i find i sleep better, for not eating close to bedtime.
I've had many electrocardioversions (<20 but >10). Depending on the hospital, there is generally a protocol not to cardiovert you past 24 or 48 hours. If you're on a blood thinner (which i take, now, for last 5 years, as soon as i hit AF, or if I suspect i may have a trigger in the day), they'll revert you right away. (I have the unauthorized blessing of my EP to take bloodthinners this unconventional way: I always know exactly when i'm in AF; some people are not so certain). Sometimes i play this waiting game: I much prefer my body to revert itself, so i give it some time, since I don't love the whole ER adventure. But the science says that "AF begets AF", so if I don't revert myself in 24 hrs, i go in. I have a long history (too much to write) - there have been years where I would go directly in to ER as soon as I had AF. In Canada I used to be successfully chemically reverted using Propafenol IV drip... but Australia doesn't use that drug so i don't know if that would work on me now.

My mom was a preventive medicine doctor, and as a circus artist I've continually been interested in optimal functioning.
De-conditioning has helped me, for sure... but more importantly is the attitude of calm and finding pleasure in listening to my body in a different way, so that there is no self recrimination/guilt etc associated with going the pace that I need to. This isn't just a lack of stress.
In this nearly 20 year era of my life, all the physiologic and electrolytic experiments (I always take the Mag, the taurine, COQ10, eat wild salmon when i can...) have proven useful in minimizing triggers / episodes of AF, but for me the crux has been learning - and practicing - deep self kindness. This has been a gradual process; For a while I thought it was enough to be ok if I had to lie down due to AF while I was coaching a student... but there are many layers and degrees of gentleness I've had to come to terms with. I suppose this is the main motivation for posting: The amount of information / research on this forum is super valuable, but from observing myself, and 2 of my "AF hiking buddies", there's a whole level of emotional / spiritual behaviour that can be addressed as well as the electrophysiology aspects.
Regarding triggers... in the first few years, i didn't recognize any, because they were so far (3 to 5 days!) removed from the AF event. As I learnt to manage / reduce those triggers, time-lapse to onset of AF was reduced, and my triggers changed, too.
Sleep is critical.

I'm quite curious about Natto, but have been unable to really understand the how-to take it safely and reliably. I keep my garlic / ginger / tumeric quota high. I am religious about hydration (i've had AF due to dehydration; not fun)

Early on, I met a competitive mogul skier who had a very similar profile to me (constant international touring, positive adrenaline stress, young woman) w lone AF. I found out that when she stopped touring and had babies, her AF subsided. It is certainly hard to keep track of those who stop having AF. But her example has been an inspiration for me, a counter-example of the dire prognosis that 'AF just gets worse w age'. I'd love to know of more of those stories. Science is great, but it mostly looks at the problems, while the resolved cases drop off the radar.

My understanding is that increased stroke risk occurs once you are back in NSR.
I've tried sotalol, it seemed to help for a bit, if only as a placebo... my body reacts quite strongly to drugs, so I was on super low dosage. I used to revert with Flecainide IV drip, then that stopped working.... the PIP pill in pocket flec never worked on me.. we are all so different in our responses to drugs!

La la la. I practice a playful rhythm meditation ( Ta Ke Ti Na ) which has helped me a lot. But it's not a cure. It's truly a multi-faceted approach that has had impact for me.

Wishing you full recovery, excellent health, and deep learning!