more on cyclical afib

Yesterday I posted a message on the string "The 'cyclic' phenomenon still amazes me". started by Pompom on July 12th.
Being relatively new to this forum, there are still many things I don't understand. When a person posts to a string that is not brand new....how will people be alerted that there is a new post on that string....or why would they even tend to see it....especially if it is not on the 1st page?

Anyway, if anyone would be so kind as to look at my post and maybe provide some answers, I would be most grateful.

I also forgot to say that I, also, as was mntioned in that post and I've seen it a little bit in other places.....after an afib sesson, my heart feels very calm and relaxed and I, too, have the feeling that something is building up, and that something is being accomplished by the afib. i just wish I could figure out what my heart needs, and how I can give it what it needs. My sessions usually last an average of 8 hours and always, so far, auto-convert.

Thanks for any thoughts or answers ! Barb

From your questions here <[www.afibbers.org]

That thread was a couple of weeks old. Once something is off the first page, most won't see it.

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Barbcat

1. What I wonder is.....did Hans have and use any method to deal with this situation and correct it? I wasn't able to find that.

Hans had two? ablations in Bordeaux around 2006, don't recall exactly. Back then, for those coming internationally, they'd check in a few days & if there was afib, they'd do a 2nd ablation before they sent you home. This lasted quite a few years and then he had some recurrence. He now controls it with flecainide. I recently visited Hans and Judy in their home in Victoria in late April of this year.

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5. Has he died?

Still very much alive. I believe he's 87 and very mentally sharp! His first afib episode was in 1989 when he was age 57.

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6. Are his books available for free...or only to buy?

Lone Atrial Fibrillation, Towards a Cure is available on Amazon here: <[www.amazon.com] all his books are here and are available in Kindle format <[www.amazon.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2019 01:14PM by GeorgeN.

Hi, Barbara.
What fascinates me in this phenomenon, is the fact that when the "battery" is depleted, there's no way to induce afib. Even in the lab.
So, my questions would be :
What's building up, how and why ?
Is it possible to prevent this thing from building up ?
If it's not, is it a way to "discharge the battery" without starting afib ?

Studying this would likely require a true collaboration between different specialists, which seems hard to organize, diagnosed afib being usually not life threatening.

Thank you both for the responses, very helpful.

What i don't understand is in that link you sent, George, Hans and a few others seemed very excited that Hans had found what seemed to be a cause for cyclical afib. But I didn't see any follow up about it....they were testing for it and excited that something was being discovered...but did they ever find a way for this information to help the afb get better?

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Barbcat
What i don't understand is in that link you sent, George, Hans and a few others seemed very excited that Hans had found what seemed to be a cause for cyclical afib. But I didn't see any follow up about it....they were testing for it and excited that something was being discovered...but did they ever find a way for this information to help the afb get better?

Barb,

When I joined here 15 years ago, many of the members were looking at many things to make their afib better. It was early in the ablation days, though Natale and the Bordeaux group were in the top tier then as well. While there is some of this today, there is much less of it and people are much quicker to go the ablation route. We had many with medical and technical backgrounds trying to work this out. I was naive when I went for a cardi visit and thought he'd be on the same page. I was very wrong. When an EP suggested I stay out of rhythm, I proposed a "Plan B" that included: detraining from chronic endurance exercise, electrolytes to keep myself in rhythm and on-demand flecainide to convert myself to NSR when the electrolytes failed. When the doc approved the plan, I did not have a detailed prescription for the electrolyte piece of my idea. I went to pubmed.com, read many papers. Read all the Afib Reports to that date (Nov 2004) <[afibbers.org] . Read all the Conference Room Proceedings to that date <[www.afibbers.org] and I read almost every post in the forum to that date. Hans used to run surveys that he would post in the Afib Report, asking what helped. All of this gave me ideas to try. I purchased a beat to beat (r to r) recording heart rate monitor <[www.afibbers.org] and would sample my heart every morning during meditation (to minimize data artefact from movement). I was looking for PAC's & PVC's. My assumption was that if something I was taking or doing reduced these PAC/PVC counts, it was worth doing (this was done when I was not in afib). From these many ideas and the testing, I settled on magnesium, potassium and taurine. It is something I have continued to tweak over time. I'm sure it is individual. I don't suggest that my routine will work for others, however I think the analytical approach may have merit. There is also an element of luck. I lucked into an approach that worked. There were many others who were very bright and motivated who tried many things who were not as lucky.

When I was first diagnosed with afib, before I had fancy monitoring equipment, I got in the habit of taking my radial pulse when I got prone at night before going to sleep. My favorite spot to take the pulse was just above and in front of the ear tragus. Most of my episodes would come on at 3AM. I noticed that if there were a couple of ectopics in a two minute monitoring, it was very likely I'd wake up in afib. Hence my assumption that if I could reduce ectopic counts, I'd be less likely to have afib. This turned out to work for me. I happened to sample electronically for 4 hours last night during sleep.

Hour  PAC      PVC
1       7      0
2       3      1
3       3      1
4       4      0

In my world, this is very quiet. Compare that to what I was talking about above - a couple of ectopics in two minutes. So good enough.

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GeorgeN
Most of my episodes would come on at 3AM. I noticed that if there were a couple of ectopics in a two minute monitoring, it was very likely I'd wake up in afib.

And if you had one of the new pacemakers that “stomped out” ectopics that could help. I have one of these and I think it has reduced my burden.

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Daisy
Most of my episodes would come on at 3AM. I noticed that if there were a couple of ectopics in a two minute monitoring, it was very likely I'd wake up in afib.
And if you had one of the new pacemakers that “stomped out” ectopics that could help. I have one of these and I think it has reduced my burden.

How does it work? Some here have big complaints about ectopic? I’m happy with my solution, but others may be interested.

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Most of my episodes would come on at 3AM. I noticed that if there were a couple of ectopics in a two minute monitoring, it was very likely I'd wake up in afib.

As always said, we're all different.
I never awoke in afib. Never. I usually wake up in a very early hour without knowing why. Then, I'd have ectopics or nothing at all. In both cases, I may get back to sleep just as if nothing happened, or have more ectopics and maybe afib. Changing position other than very slowly may trigger afib. Drinking some water makes me burping and feeling better.
In case afib starts, the best I've to do then is trying to sleep, right or left side does not matter, but afib is more loudly felt laying on my left side or on my back. I usually have to stand up one or two times to go to the toilet, self converting (often in my sleep) within less than one hour.

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GeorgeN

And if you had one of the new pacemakers that “stomped out” ectopics that could help. I have one of these and I think it has reduced my burden.

How does it work? Some here have big complaints about ectopic? I’m happy with my solution, but others may be interested.

When the pacemaker detects ectopics it speeds up for a few seconds. The heart will follow the pacemaker’s higher, but steady rhythm, and hopefully maintain this steady rhythm when the pacemaker slows back down. It is sometimes called outpacing the ectopics.

Don't know if you will see this, George, since this post is so old, but I just wanted to thank you for answering so many of my and other's questions and being so generous with your time and sharing your experiences. I really appreciate that. I've been taking what limited and expensive, too low of dosages of supplements I can get in Portugal, still struggling with having afib. Still noticing the cyclical nature of my afib but not knowing how to deal with that or understand it. We will be in the States in a few weeks .... I will get more and better supplements. My husband is so worried about me, he is planning some drastic changes in our lives to try to lower the stress level. Anyway, thanks again for all the support and efforts to help so many of us.
.... and the same thanks to many others who have answered my questions.

I'm a newbie on here and very interested in any information that's shared.
I myself was put on flecainide at 100mg twice a day. I became a zombie. My life was completely upside down.
My Dr put me on pip at first , but changed it after hearing I had afib 2 mos apart...but I had lots of stress at that time ( long story ) but all stress issues resolved, on a good food and exercise plan as well.
I finally decided to reduce my dosage over the course of several mos.on my own until I took none. I have my life back !
I had called my Dr office about all the side affects but he did not suggest seeing me. Just to keep my yrly app.7 mos away.
All my tests are good by the way and no other health issues .
I have, had , proxsamal afib and think being on constant flecainide is not called for....my next step when I see the Dr is to discuss all this . unless I start having afibs before then I wil be definite about not taking flecainide on a regular basis.
I react to even one Tylenol so you can imagine what I feel like on 200 mg a day of flecainide.
Specialist don't have the time to really know the person they treat I get that, but I'm not going to be treated by someone who does not know me just a little better than a few minutes in a visit and order tests...I have a well respected Dr and like the care recieved, but I know me best.
Thanks for reading my post. Anyone else out there who went off this med and got their life, as they once knew it, back ?