Calcium and Afib -- elimination or reduction of Afib (or Migraine) by adjustment of calcium

In the earlier 06/01/2019 thread “Aura Migraines/AFIB”, it was revealed that at least two individuals who suffered from both Afib and Aura Migraines have eliminated both ailments by reducing their total dietary calcium intake (substantially).

Beyond those specific cases, it is fairly common knowledge on this site, but not sufficiently discussed, that at least some reduction of afib burden can be gained by many individuals through reducing calcium intake. GeorgeN, for example, is another for whom more-or-less complete elimination of his afib requires him to have a daily dietary calcium intake below a certain level. Both GeorgeN and I have avoided ablations and medication.

It is potentially highly relevant to have a better idea how widespread experience with calcium reduction is. So, I would like to ask ALL visitors to this site to report the following:

1) Please report if you, or anyone you know, has noticed any reduction of total afib burden (number of events, or their duration) after reduction of total dietary calcium intake.

2) Please report if you, or anyone you know, has noticed reduction of total afib burden after increasing Vitamin D intake. [It is my clear experience that low calcium intake (actually not that low in an evolutionary perspective) and high Vitamin D levels (actually not that high in an evolutionary perspective) is definitely the best combination, indeed the critical key – as documented on my website carrafibdietinfo.com -- and I believe that this is part of GeorgeN's standard arrangement also].

3) It would also be useful to know of anyone who has experienced MORE afib after increasing their Vitamin D intake. [This would very likely occur when an individual did not concurrently, ie at the same time, reduce their calcium intake -- since increased Vitamin D intake increases calcium absorption and reduces calcium excretion. So such reports would still in fact confirm the underlying calcium/afib link!].

4) It would be of bonus interest if anyone else reports reduction or elimination of migraines from reduced dietary calcium intake and/or increased VitD intake.

A number of years ago I overdosed on magnesium. Since that time I have never had another headache.

Magnesium counterbalances calcium, so magnesium should help prevent headaches.

Why all migraine patients should be treated with magnesium.

Migraines and Magnesium

In posts on this forum others have stated that they have discontinued calcium supplementation and increased Vitamin D supplementation by as much as 10,000 IU a day. I have used 10,000 IU a day for over 30 years.

Taurine seems to have some value in preventing migraines..

Taurine and Migraines

I hope this helps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2019 01:24AM by Jim Benton.

Are those that have eliminated symptoms by reducing calcium also taking a calcium channel blocker?

JDfiB, I don't take any medication, and as far as I know, neither does GeorgeN (at least not regularly).

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JDfiB
Are those that have eliminated symptoms by reducing calcium also taking a calcium channel blocker?

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SteveCarr
JDfiB, I don't take any medication, and as far as I know, neither does GeorgeN (at least not regularly).

In my case, I have never had a migraine. As to afib, as I've previously reported, there was a period where I was consuming a lot of calcium through food (brie cheese). My afib control deteriorated during this ~18 month period. When I reread the literature on calcium and afib and quit the brie, my control returned to its prior excellent level. The only med I take is flecainide on demand (PIP) when I go out of rhythm, which is very infrequent when not consuming excess calcium (my afib burden runs less than 0.06% - 15 years ago it was 57% during my first 4 months in my afib "career"). Excess calcium is a piece of my afib remission story. The other parts include magnesium to bowel tolerance, detraining from excessive endurance exercise while remaining fit and active, 4 g/day of taurine and 4 g/day of potassium as citrate, consumed over the day in a liter of water.

I had migraines my whole life, but they eased off in the last few years. I used to just suffer through them - sometimes a couple of days.

Then, I tried Sumitripan and the headaches would usually subside in an hour or so. I thought it was a miracle drug, but wondered if it was hurting me in other ways (I've never liked taking medicine>) I still had headaches, usually ever 2 or 3 weeks.

My first and only Afib episode, so far, and wish it was my last......was on November 28, 2018.

I have not had a headache since then. If you know me, that is amazing. I've been told it's probably the beta blocker that I am taking to slow my heart rate.

As far as Vitamin D and calcium, I had my Vitamin D tested in Feb. and found it to be 11 - extremely low. I have been taking 5,000 iu per day since then. I am currently awaiting new test results and hope there has been a vast improvement. I try to limit calcium in my diet.

Edited to Add:Just got my test results back. 48 - big improvement and hope that it continues to rise!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 05:49PM by katesshadow.

Count me as one who has significantly restricted calcium and takes high dose Vitamin D (10K IU per day) and about 1.2-1.5g of magnesium per day (not a typo) as part of an overall maintenance strategy. Excess calcium is definitely correlated with PACs, which are now pretty much gone, two years after a successful Natale ablation. Last Vitamin D test was around 96.

Oddly enough, the only aura migraine I ever had was about a week after the ablation. I only know what it was because my wife used to suffer from them. Correlated? Vagus nerve related? No clue.

I would like to try lowering calcium to see if it would help my afib.....after reading about you all's experiences.
Would someone be able to help me with some guidelines about amounts? What is a low amount to aim for?
I eat some cheese and yogurt and real butter. But not huge amounts. The butter is necessary to get high healthy fat, when I can't get coconut oil to cook with or olive oil to use raw. The other things I can eliminate, if necessary.

I stopped calcium supplements after reading they were not good for afib, a few years ago. I also stopped vitamin
D, C and B, reading they were also not good for afib....but recently added them back in, not being sure if that was a good idea to eliminate them. I take 5,00 IU vit D3 if I don't get about 10 minutes of real sunlight a day ( preferable)... (a la Dr. Joe Mercola).
I haven't noticed the increased vit D affecting my afib, but I have extreme trouble figuring out triggers or helps with my afib.

Thank you to anyone for some guidelines on what amount of calcium has been helpful to you in reducing your afib.

Barbara

Barbcat : I currently consume 420mg of calcium per day and 5,000 IU of D3 five days per week (ie 25,000 IU per week). I have ZERO afib and ZERO ectopics at those levels.

That amount of VitD keeps my serum (blood) VitD at a "Paleo" level, ie about 165 nmol/L or 65 ng/ml -- or what people naturally plateau at if they spend a lot of time with much skin sun-exposed. That dose keeps it around that level whether I get more sun or not, cos sunlight will not boost one's serum VitD much (or at all) above that level anyway. So it is easiest to take the oral dose continuously, regardless of sun exposure.

I also do some other things, as detailed on my website carrafibdietinfo.com, but the calcium/VitD thing is certainly the most powerful. (The site needs a latest update since I am no longer adding magnesium -- indeed I am avoiding high magnesium foods -- but the rest is pretty up to date, and testing over and over and over again shows the critical effects of calcium/VitD!).

NOTE: you should DEFINITELY get a VitD blood test -- the ONLY way to know if you've got it right. And if you then need to dose up, NOTE THAT SIMPLY TAKING 5,000IU/DAY WILL TAKE WEEKS OR MONTHS TO REACH 165nmol/L (65ng/ml) UNLESS YOU TAKE AN INITIAL, HIGHER "LOADING DOSE" TO GET IT UP THERE FAST. As a rough guide for example, I've previously found that, say, 50,000 IU, over a few days, will raise my serum VitD approx 25 nmol/L. 100,000 IU over a few days will raise it approx 50 nmol/L. [Doctors and various medical studies sometimes use 250,000 IU single doses, so there is no harm in achieving a rapid increase.]

To calculate your real calcium consumption, use sites like https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list (For unprocessed foods, use the "Standard Reference" option), or http://rapsol.dk/En/, or http://www.fineli.fi/index.php?lang=en, or https://wholefoodcatalog.info/

Please report how you go.

Hey Steve,

Thanks so much for taking the time to give me all the info on calcium and vitamin D. I took a look at your website, too.
I am glad to have this info and I've started on the low calcium. It is helpful for me to know how much calcium and vit D you take and to know that this has affected your afib so dramatically.
I looked up all the foods I usually might eat and wrote in the calcium mgs on my chart for each of them.

I started back on Vitamin D recently...and have been getting a lot of sun living in some hot climates for a few years. Getting tested is not easy for me, living mostly in foreign countries, but I will do it when I can and I did do it a few years ago. I don't have the numbers with me, but I remember it was in the Dr. Mercola optimum range.

The low calcium info is mostly new to me, although I did hear that calcium supplements are generally not good for afibbers.
I hope it will be key for me like for some of you. I am back on magnesium and have started eating high potassium foods since a few days ago....reading about potassium on this website. I will get some supplements as soon as I can. I'm really glad to have some new things to try since I was getting despondent about my recurrence of afib after 6 good months.

Something I read on your website really struck a chord with me. I have had this intuitive thought about my afib, and you are the 1st person who said something similar. My afib seems to be more cyclical than anything else. It will often have a pattern of coming again between 1 or 2 wks time. That pattern seems to be stronger than any triggers I can identify. I get the feeling that the afib is doing something that my heart needs. I have no idea what that is. But when it's finished...my heart feels relaxed, at peace or something, for a week or two. You mentioned something like that on your website. That you thought that something was being accomplished and that the reason afib will usually get worse over time is because the afib has a harder time accomplishing the "thing" and has to spend more time in afib to accomplish it. You seemed to be searching for what it needed and I think you have come up with the few nutritional approaches that are keeping you out of afib and ectopics.
I have been searching for what my heart needs too. I thought autophagy was the answer with the fasting.....but then it stopped working.

I have a few questions for you if and when you have time:
1. Since you talk about a paleo diet a lot and I mostly do that also.....do you avoid grains and dairy?
I have been 98% grain free for 5 years but do eat some dairy. That's going to change a lot with keeping calcium low.

2.I guess I don't have Lone afib, right? Because I have a hole in my septum....now finally closed with a device....but the hole and the stretching it caused are what caused my afib. Even the congenital heart defect doctor at Stanford said that.

3. Did you ever take prescription blood thinners?
Maybe you talk about that on your website...I didn't look over the whole thing.

4. The doctor who did my closure said that the nerve fibers were stretched because the hole in my septum caused the right side of my heart to enlarge ( there was unprocessed blood flow going through the hole and dumping extra blood onto the right side (for 66 years !). It has now gone down to normal size with the closure but the afib did not stop. He said that in a younger person (40 or so or younger) usually afib does stop after a closure because the fibers are able to regenerate.

The reason I tried the interrmitent fasting and protein restriction (Glow 15 diet) was because it is supposed to regenerate cells and even stimulate stem cell production. Longer fasts are supposed to stimulate stem cell production even more.
Do you have an opinion about regeneration and stem cell production affecting the nerve fibers that are causing afib? (if they are....I don't know....)
When my afib improved dramatically, I thought this theory was working....that the nerve fibers were maybe regenerating from the autophagy. Now that the diet stopped working (if that was even the reason it improved in the 1st place) I don't know what to think about the nerve fiber / regeneration theory with afib....any thoughts about that?

Thank you for your help
Barbara



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2019 05:21AM by Barbcat.

Barbara :

1) Yes, I pretty-much avoid grains -- but I'm not fanatical about it. Maybe a grain-containing food once per week in some treat or other. I am more rigorous about dairy -- I know by heart now (in more ways than one!) what the calcium contents of foods are, and since I eat 6 eggs per day the amount of calcium in those alone leaves basically no room for dairy! But again, I might have a dairy and grain-containing cake once per week, eg.

Re (2) and (4): I can only say that my own situation, which is all I know about for sure, is that of "pure" Lone afib -- no other known pathologies.

3) Never took blood thinners. [Unless you count Omega3 fats. But there's a study that says ~0.65 g/day of long-chain Omega3 is optimum for afib, and more makes worse. So, BTW, how many are doing themselves no favours there? And 6 eggs alone (well, 6 Aussie eggs) allegedly has nearly that much, so I add no more Omega3]

4) I have no detailed thoughts on the autophagy/protein-restriction/fasting aspects beyond this : exercise seems to be the trigger for regeneration everywhere else in the body, with some evidence even in the brain, so personally I'm not restraining myself much there -- had a great 3km, for my age, today!

Cheers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2019 06:38AM by SteveCarr.

Thanks, Steve, for all the additional info and your experience. It's all very helpful to me.

I am trying some new things taken from yours and others' experiences on here and also from the main website.
It's too soon to tell....but I think some things are maybe helping already. I am now in my window of when I usually get afib.
1 to 2 weeks. Not always..but that's been the strongest most usual pattern. 2 weeks tomorrow, since my last one.

I've had a few times the last few days where it has started up and I've been able to get it to stop in the first few minutes.
That is rare. I've rested, done the valvasa movement a few times and took aconite (a homeopathic rememdy suggested by Hans Larsen on this site....new for me to try that). So that seems like an exciting result, so far.

I have lowered my calcium a lot (around 200mg), upped potassium with diet so far (around 1,500 - 2,000mg) and upped magnesium from 500 to 1,000mg and I will go higher. Also I'm forcing myself (kind of hard!) not to sleep on my left side, since I've read so many people feel that is an afib trigger. I haven't noticed sleeping on the left side as a direct trigger, but I do feel my heart beating when I sleep on that side and it does feel like the position kind of squishes it.

Today we are going to try to find some supplements here. Potassium, taurine and more magnesium. Also the 3 B vitamins recommended by Hans for natural blood thinng....I already take nattokinase and CoQ10 for that. Soon, I hope to look for a source of Natto food. We are in Portugal for the 1st time, so finding things is challenging. I'm hoping to avoid mail ordering as we are still quite transient..

I appreciated all the great info on this website, and so many people who have taken the time to share experiences about what has helped them. I was feeling pretty despondent after having 6 months with almost no afb....and then going back to my pattern of about 2 - 4 afibs a month for many hours. I am encouraged to have some new things to try that have helped other people. Many thanks to all of you.

Steve.... another question, sorry. Do I remember seeing on your website some raves about eating cranberries?
I will go back and look at that to understand it better.....but I was wondering....
do you eat fresh or dried? I'm assuming unsweetened.
Where do you find them?
And how much do you eat a day of them? thanks again !

Barbara



TiTod

ps.....I see I spelled it wrong....it's the valsalva movement.

also forgot to say that I have upped my vitamin D supplementation. I took 10,000 IU for about 4 days and now am going to keep going with 5,000 IU daily....whether or not I get sun....which I do usually try to for a little while at least. Dr Mercola says that real sun is better than supplementation if you can get it....but it sounds like he is maybe not right that it should be either real sun OR supplementation, preferably real sun....? Of course, he is not talking about people with afib......

just wanted to add that since I see the reasoning that lowered calcium should go along with higher doses of vitamin D.
When I am next in the States, I will get my vitamin D tested.

thanks again,
Barb

Two cups of cranberries per day. Bought frozen, unsweetened. There is a frozen-berry chain here (Australia) which sells 1Kg packs.

Cranberries are very bitter, how do you eat them as a sauce, juice? Do you use any sweetener, doubtful many people could eat 2 cups a day, I like cranberries but I make a sauce with a little sweetener but 2 cups is a little much.

Liz

I consume them for stomach issues and inflammation on a daily basis, around 8oz.. I blend them in a smoothie with a banana and an apple sweetened with a spoon of local honey and about 20 grams of grass feed protein mix. Since I don't consume any sugar I don't notice the bitterness, you get easily adjusted to it.