Got my ExaTest number today - any help?

Hi everyone,

I got my Exatest numbers today from my GP. I'm very interested in anyone's comments or experience with the test results so I can make my next steps.

Any ideas about why Potassium and Chloride is on the low end of the scale? I was hospitalized last week and my serum Potassium level was low for me @ 3.5. (I wanted to show the doctor that my previous tests had been higher @4.8 and 5.0 and felt better, but she said 3.5 was "normal" and was not impressed or interested in anything I said.)

Test date: 1 March 2019

Supplementing with 725 mg of MagSRT per day, 500 mg Potassium Gluconate plus potassium conscious diet.

Magnesium 39.1 (Range 34.0-42.0)
Calcium 3.5 (Range 3.2-5.0)
Potassium 95.0 (Range 80 - 240.0)
Sodium 4.5 (3.8 - 5.8)
Chloride 3.4 (3.4 - 6.0)
Phosphorus (14.2 - 17.0)

I should note that all my potassium ratios are low and out of range.

Thank you!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 02:35PM by MadMax.

Fantastic Mg and Ca Max! If I had levels anything like that I'd be over the moon! (In 2010 mine were 31.9 Mg and 7.0 Ca.... My AF predisposition is genetic - my mother had PAF from her mid-30s and I first got it aged 38 - and I'm convinced Mg and Ca IC handling abnormalities are the reason. The problem is that even the most ferocious supplementation can't make much impact if the problem is a genetic one.)

Thank you very much for the response, I really appreciate it.

Weirdly, despite my tests I'm getting worse. Ectopics, a-fib, cold, and extreme fatigue are all increasing over the last 6-8 weeks, and I'm writing right now while in a-fib, covered by down comforters.

So something is up, and I'm trying to figure it out. Thanks again.

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MadMax
Thank you very much for the response, I really appreciate it.

Weirdly, despite my tests I'm getting worse. Ectopics, a-fib, cold, and extreme fatigue are all increasing over the last 6-8 weeks, and I'm writing right now while in a-fib, covered by down comforters.

So something is up, and I'm trying to figure it out. Thanks again.

Your potassium is low (as you noted yourself), and from I read on this forum, that's an important contributor to ectopics/Afib.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2019 09:16AM by katesshadow.

Hi Kate -

Yes, it's low, it was 3.5 in the hospital when I'm normally 4.5- 5.0.

I've been supplementing with both magnesium and potassium for a long time. I took 575 mg of Potassium Gluconate during the day on the night I was admitted, spacing it out over a 8-9 hour period. I also had 1.5L of coconut water, a banana and an avocado, plus regular food that day. No junk food, no flour, sugar or dairy. I can't understand the hospital reading or the Exatest result.

Because 3.5 is considered "normal," the doctor in the hospital said that it was not a problem and there was nothing to be done about it.

During my stay at the hospital I did not take my Eliquis - 50 hours roughly.. Crying stopped, my heart stabilized, I was able to walk around the room in a shirt instead of a ski coat, and everything from my sleep to bowel movements were like months ago - normal. My tele EKG was "rock sold" according to the doctors, with once instance of 15 second a-fib a few hours after getting to the hospital. After 24 hours I actually felt hungry which has not happened in almost a month. My echocardiogram was normal.

The doctors at the hospital were extremely energetic in saying that there was absolutely no way that Eliquis had any of those side effects, that the only thing possible was a little extra bleeding. I said I had read reports from the manufacturer and read other people's accounts that it was possible, but they were completely dismissive.

After talking with my family, we decided to try switching to Xarelto. I went home, helped with dinner, was able to climb stairs, slept in my bed for the first time in weeks, but woke up feeling not so great. 24 hours later I was back to basically the same symptoms. Less crying for sure, but not much change in anything else.

The symptoms are now steadily worse. I tried 90 mg of Diltiazem every six hours since Sunday night, and my heart felt like it was being slammed mechanically. It was regular, but straining and painful. Now I'm in a-fib and not sure what to do next.

I apologize, that was a big answer to a simple question from you. Maybe there's a small chance someone reads this and has had similar symptoms.

Thank you again for the answer.

**Maybe there's a small chance someone reads this and has had similar symptoms.**

Hopefully so. I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you.

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MadMax
Yes, it's low, it was 3.5 in the hospital when I'm normally 4.5- 5.0.

I spent two years measuring my own potassium levels multiple times per day. The thing I learned from that is how fast potassium levels can change. I've seen my potassium levels go from, say, 4.9 to 3.9 in just an hour or two. So having seen how rapidly and wildly it can fluctuate, I sort of chuckle when I see doctors take a single reading as gospel. It's really just a snapshot in time, and your 3.5 could easily have been 4.5 a few hours later without you or anybody else doing anything. I guess my point is that I wouldn't read a whole lot into a single measurement. It doesn't necessarily mean that's your typical level.

Hi Carey,

Thank you - I did realize that it changes, but I didn't know how fast it changes. Did you figure out your range of normal for you, or a way to get your potassium stores where they needed to be?

Thank you.

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MadMax
Thank you - I did realize that it changes, but I didn't know how fast it changes. Did you figure out your range of normal for you, or a way to get your potassium stores where they needed to be?

Yes, my normal tends toward the low end of the range, which was unfortunate because the one thing I found that prevented my flutter was keeping myself at the high end of the range. I did figure out how to keep it high, but it definitely wasn't easy. Your body has a baseline it wants to be at and altering that significantly is difficult. Taking supplements is largely a waste of time because when you raise your potassium level above where your body wants it to be, your kidneys kick in and rapidly eliminate the excess. I had to work with my EP and take both extended release potassium supplements and potassium-sparing drugs to keep my body from excreting it. That combination is a huge medical no-no that all the textbooks warn about, so convincing him wasn't easy. Short of the extreme measures I went to, I found that the next best thing is dietary sources. Unlike supplements, which your body excretes rapidly, potassium obtained through food is kind of a natural extended release that your body won't aggressively remove.

That's great info Carey, thank you. I suspect, and I've not done the testing you have, that I'm better with higher potassium than lower. I've also kept a diet rich in potassium, keeping track for a few weeks with a scale to make sure I was accurate.

I think one big struggle for anyone who needs care is in finding the right doctor (or doctors). I've run into more than one that not only know the answer, but know that their answer applies to everyone and anyone. I've found it a bit frustrating.

Thanks again.

Max - for assistance with potassium retention, you may find the information in CR Session 72 which was offered in 2011... thanks to the research and books on "The K Factor" by Biophysicist Richard D. Moore, MD, PhD.

The intro post is a short read but the related references and following comments add up to a long post... with useful, helpful responses as well.

SUBJECT: Potassium/Sodium Ratio in Atrial Fibrillation

Sodium and potassium! Biophysicist Richard D. Moore explains:

"For purely physical reasons (connected with the law of osmotic equilibrium), inside the cell, the sum of sodium and potassium must be constant. This means that... sodium and potassium are unalterably linked together like two children on a teeter totter. You can’t change one without changing the other. "Thus, in the perspective of biophysics, it makes no sense to talk about either sodium or potassium alone - these two substances always affect each other in a reciprocal relation. Hence their ratio... reflects the state of the living cell more completely than either sodium or potassium alone...

It is not only a simplifying concept, but a much more scientifically valid measure of the state of health of the living cell.

Continue:
[www.afibbers.org]


Jackie

My OTC time release potassium supplement is to dissolve 2 tsps of potassium citrate powder (about 4 g's of potassium) in about a liter of water and drink it over the course of the day.

I did an Exatest over 14 years ago. From that time, I recall that the ratios were very important, not just the absolute values. I don't recall the details. My borderline low Mg++ level did convince me to initiate the Mg++ supplementation that I've pursued since.

Your symptoms sound like they may have an origin beyond electrolytes. I did notice that potassium levels stabilized with sufficient magnesium intake.

George

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Jackie
Max - for assistance with potassium retention, you may find the information in CR Session 72 which was offered in 2011... thanks to the research and books on "The K Factor" by Biophysicist Richard D. Moore, MD, PhD.

Jackie

Thank you Jackie, I've been reading up on that subject and I appreciate the reference.

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GeorgeN
My OTC time release potassium supplement is to dissolve 2 tsps of potassium citrate powder (about 4 g's of potassium) in about a liter of water and drink it over the course of the day.

I did an Exatest over 14 years ago. From that time, I recall that the ratios were very important, not just the absolute values. I don't recall the details. My borderline low Mg++ level did convince me to initiate the Mg++ supplementation that I've pursued since.

Your symptoms sound like they may have an origin beyond electrolytes. I did notice that potassium levels stabilized with sufficient magnesium intake.

George

Thank you George. Just so I understand (and I'm not going to copy you, n=1, etc.) is your 4 grams of potassium citrate roughly four times my 575mg of Potassium Gluconate that I sip during the day? Also is it similar to the Natural Calm supplement (which I find is a bowel turbocharger)?

I agree that the symptoms have organs beyond just electrolyte balance - open heart surgery, stroke and Brexit talks are all in the mix, and I'm talking to a variety of professionals to help me figure out what steps to take.

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MadMax



Thank you George. Just so I understand (and I'm not going to copy you, n=1, etc.) is your 4 grams of potassium citrate roughly four times my 575mg of Potassium Gluconate that I sip during the day? Also is it similar to the Natural Calm supplement (which I find is a bowel turbocharger)?

Potassium citrate does not have the same bowel issues as magnesium citrate (NaturalCalm).

Assuming the 575mg in your gluconate is from the potassium, not the total compound, then the total ratio would be 4/0.575 = 6.9 or 6.9 times what you are doing.

My logic is that if you've got good kidneys, any excess potassium goes out in the urine. Also the recommended daily intake from food and other sources is 4750 mg/day or 4.75 grams. I've consumed up to 8 g at once without issue. <[health.gov] "A potassium-rich diet also blunts the effects of salt on blood pressure, may reduce the risk of developing kidney stones, and possibly decrease bone loss with age. The recommended intake of potassium for adolescents and adults is 4,700 mg/day." In Richard Moore MD, PhD's book <[www.amazon.com] he recommends a 4:1 potassium to sodium ratio on intake. I don't measure sodium intake, I do use it in cooking but cook everything from scratch, so no processed foods.

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GeorgeN

My logic is that if you've got good kidneys, any excess potassium goes out in the urine. Also the recommended daily intake from food and other sources is 4750 mg/day or 4.75 grams. I've consumed up to 8 g at once without issue. <[health.gov] "A potassium-rich diet also blunts the effects of salt on blood pressure, may reduce the risk of developing kidney stones, and possibly decrease bone loss with age. The recommended intake of potassium for adolescents and adults is 4,700 mg/day." In Richard Moore MD, PhD's book <[www.amazon.com] he recommends a 4:1 potassium to sodium ratio on intake. I don't measure sodium intake, I do use it in cooking but cook everything from scratch, so no processed foods.

Thanks again George, that makes sense.

I had to get a saline IV intervention over 5 days in the hospital in November to treat my stroke. The doctor joked that he doesn't see kidneys like mine very often, he was surprised how strong they were relative to the saline IV. Weirdly though, a blood test two weeks ago showed protein in my urine, and I've been having runs of darker urine every few days now. It coincides with slightly better energy and fewer ectopics too.

When I had more energy, I used a scale to measure my meals, and I was getting about 5,000 - 6,000 mg of potassium a day (food plus supplements), and right around 1,000 mg of sodium per day. As an experiment, I started taking in more salt, which for 48 hours made me feel so much better that I thought maybe I had found part of my recovery. It was followed by a few really bad days, so I've not tried that again, but I do get a little more salt now that when I tested.

As for processed foods, I don't have them either. As for nutrient values, I'm very suspicious that values from charts are accurate, I think there's a big difference between home-grown, farmer's market, grocery store and gas station produce.

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MadMax

When I had more energy, I used a scale to measure my meals, and I was getting about 5,000 - 6,000 mg of potassium a day (food plus supplements), and right around 1,000 mg of sodium per day. As an experiment, I started taking in more salt, which for 48 hours made me feel so much better that I thought maybe I had found part of my recovery. It was followed by a few really bad days, so I've not tried that again, but I do get a little more salt now that when I tested.

As for processed foods, I don't have them either. As for nutrient values, I'm very suspicious that values from charts are accurate, I think there's a big difference between home-grown, farmer's market, grocery store and gas station produce.

I concur about values being very different from different sources. The contrary opinion about sodium salt is here: <[www.amazon.com]

I eat some but don't measure. probably on the lower end of sodium consumption. I can't say who is correct. certainly going with how you feel can be very useful.

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GeorgeN

I eat some but don't measure. probably on the lower end of sodium consumption. I can't say who is correct. certainly going with how you feel can be very useful.

Thank you George. I'm familiar with your salt reference. I completely support the idea of going by feel for a lot of things.