taking Xarelto & these supplements too?

Hi,

I was just on here asking about blood thinners, etc. Thought I would start a new post to ask if I might obtain advice about taking some of my supps when I start Xarelto tonight?

Here is my list of some I think are questionable to take w/Xarelto tho possibly some can be taken in lower doses?
Ginkgo biloba 120 mg 2x/day)is what I had been doing since not on a blood thinner before
Cod Liver Oil 1 Tbsp daily wh includes some A, D3, 3180 Omega 3 total
Calamari DHA pill 500 mg of DHA, 50 mg EPA
Qunol ubiquinol (CoQ10) 100 mg daily
Vit C 240 mg at night, Nutrigold fr whole food & also C-Salts in water - sometimes 1000-2000 mg daytime
Famil-E gamma tocopherol & tocotrienols Jarrow (there are 3 different amounts on back label for the varying Es)
Nutrigold Vit K2, MK-7 Gold 100 mcg 3 days a week (i know it helps clotting, but also recommended for heart, just not sure now since starting a NOAC)

The cardiologist did not even discuss my supplement list when prescribing the Xarelto for me, so I ask you please.

Thank you.

Madeline -

Stop the Ginkgo!

Cut back severely on the Fish oil type supplements... you mention Cod Liver Oil, Omega 3's, EPA/DHA, the Vitamin E's.

On the MK7 Gold... check the product data science facts to determine if it has blood thinning properties...and if so...do not take. The MK 7 (menaquinone 7) that I'm familiar with is to be used with vitamin D to help prevent activity of circulating calcium from depositing in arteries or other soft tissue.

CoQ10 at 100 mg daily should not be a problem.

The nutrients may not interfere with Xalerto but they all work to help keep blood thinner and you definitely don't need that when you're on a formal anticoagulant. Be safe. If you are in doubt... don't take it until you verify from a reliable source that it does not interfere or contribute to blood thinning...

Jackie

Hey, M.

Suggest you forward a well-detailed list of the supps to your cardio, and request her / his specific recommendations.

All the best!

/L

Hey L.

Do you think that really is a good idea? Very few EPs believe In supplements, they certainly won't advice on which supplement to take.

L

They have my detailed supp list & the frightening thing is I was sent home w/advice to start Xarelto & he said nothing about my 240 mg of ginkgo biloba daily. I knew about it bec I do research stuff & I am asking for more advice now. When I saw him the first time last yr, he did pooh-pooh many of my good supps. Much I take is recommended by thyroid and adrenal support groups & a lot is recommended by Dr. Perlmutter, author of Grain Brain. I have 2 sisters who died of early Alzheimer's & even tho I am past age for early Az, I certainly want to take particular care for my brain in case I am more susceptible for regular alzheimers.

Elizabeth, I agree I can't expect much good advice there. Most of them think you are crazy for taking anything. They think we get most we need from food - which may have been easier in times past, but not now.

Thank you Jackie. I have stopped the ginkgo 240 mg a day. Supposed to be good for your brain too tho guess I will give it to my husband as I have 2 bottles.

When you say cut back severely on the fish oil supps, do you think:

Maybe I could take 1 tsp of the cod liver oil (instead of the 3 tsp I was taking)
the DHA 500 was recommended by Dr. Perlmutter - alzheimer prevention - Grain Brain book (he actually recommends 1000 mg a day)
All the fish oil also helps the joints

Famil-E is my E & is said to be very good for the heart, but it too is supposed to be a blood thinner

Vit C is said to thin blood too, so I guess I will just take my Nutrigold 240 mg once a day & not do the C-salts also

on the K2 MK-7 Gold, last yr the drs reminded me that vit K helps with clotting, so not to take it, but I take it 3 days a week - not sure now that I have started Xarelto. I was not thinking of it thinning the blood, but rather clotting the blood as reason not to take it.

There is a lot of info in the Adrenal Fatigue book I have, copyright date 2001, re supps

These are reasons I did not want to be on a blood thinner too - not just risk of bleeding, but having to stop beneficial supps I have been taking

Unfortunately, when I went to pick up the script, I unknowingly had to pay a $415 deductible for the yr on Xarelto in addition to the monthly charge after ins coverage. I will commit for a while, but still so hesitant to do this. I have not done it for the past yr since being diagnosed with AF.

Madeline – I have no argument with you about the many benefits of the supplements you take and the reasons why.
However, when you start a new medication (especially, a blood thinner), for safety and to give the new med the opportunity to function as intended, you must eliminate any potential interferences or complications from nutritional supplements.
It’s better to err on the side of caution. I either eliminated or cut back significantly and added back in after about three weeks… one at a time and at lower doses those upon which I rely for maintaining health. We are all different in needs, heritage and environmental interferences…so choices and dosing are individually unique. My Functional Medicine MD orders nutrient testing from Genova Diagnostics – NutrEval - twice a year to make sure I’m in the recommended ranges. It’s very specific. [www.gdx.net]

My comments on your notations:

You are aware that the ginkgo is labeled not for use with anticoagulants, so that’s a given. Yes, I agree about the well-known properties of ginkgo to support blood flow to the brain and support cognition. I was reluctant to give mine up, too. Look into Magnesium L-Threonate … which is magnesium chelated to threonic acid (magnesium L-threonate)… it’s an “ ionophore has been found to be superior to other forms of magnesium at getting through the blood brain barrier as it is able to transport ions (in this case magnesium ions) across lipid membranes, including brain cells.” I’ve been using that for over a year.

And for the others you mention…. I had/have the same dilemma. So, my comments are based on my research and then my own (unique) compatibility issues for natural compounds that help keep blood viscosity in a safe, normal range. There are numerous archived posts on hyperviscosity and thick, sticky blood, I’ll list the links at the end so you can read if interested. I certainly want to make sure blood flows well to my brain continually.

Fish oil supplements.. (Omega 3’s) and related also have the potential to ‘thin’ blood mainly because they reduce inflammatory factors which are known to make blood clot more easily because it increases the viscosity or thickness of the blood. and the benefits of Omega 3’s which are high in EPA and DHA components. Keep your combined levels at a low dosing range. I’m on half-dose Eliquis twice a day… and I reduced my Omega 3’s from 3 grams a day to 1 gram.

On the Vitamin E…. your daily dose? Keep in mind, all the potential ‘thinning’ effects are cumulative.


On the C. Salts… note that it contains calcium ascorbate… Avoid taking any form of calcium. So just stick with your Nutrigold.

Vitamin K… The K2 MK7 component of Vitamin K does not function in the clotting pathway. It is an important companion supplement if you are using Vitamin D3 because the MK7 helps prevent circulating calcium deposition in soft tissues. The component of vitamin K which affects the clotting mechanism is Vitamin K1 or phylloquinone.

(I use a significant dose of vitamin D3 to keep my levels in the upper range and I use K2 MK7 to prevent the calcium deposition issue).


The archived posts


Silent Inflammation – Risk Marker for Stroke, Heart Attack & Much More
April 07, 2012
[www.afibbers.org]


Sticky, thick blood - risk of stroke or MI
September 06, 2012
[www.afibbers.org]


Clot risk
April 15, 2017
[www.afibbers.org]


Jackie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2019 10:33AM by Jackie.

Think it's a GREAT idea, Elizabeth.

I update my EP every year on my supps... and he makes suggestions... e.g., he's asked me to add CoQ10 and D3, and cut out Vitamin E.

/L



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2019 12:40PM by LarryG.

Vitamin D is the only vitamin that the body makes--- 10 to 20 min. of sunshine is all it takes.


[www.sharecare.com]

In the final stage of the process, the liver and kidneys convert that vitamin D into yet another form of the vitamin -- vitamin D3, the active form of the vitamin that our bodies can use. You need just 10 to 20 minutes of sunlight a day to ensure that your body is producing enough vitamin D.

Liz

Vitamin D production from sunlight depends greatly on where you live, the time of day, time of year, and how dark your skin is. Someone living in Canada probably can't produce enough vitamin D from October to April, and in the mid latitudes of the US it's more like November to March. Having the sun directly overhead also makes a big difference. You're not going to produce much in early mornings and late afternoons even in Florida. Lighter skin produces more than darker skin.

Our hospital has a very good pharmacist that works with the team to help these questions- perhaps you have one as well? It is the first time i felt comfortable...like they actually knew what they were talking about.... LOL. Lots of times i think the docs wing it. They answered specifically for me (but they did give me omega 3 while IN the hospital). Check into it

I started a new thread since this one has gotten off the original subject. I wanted help & advice starting on Xarelto & now I have started a new topic to ask about propafenone which has now been prescribed for me. So I just wanted to let you know I have more questions, but started a new topic w/propafenone in the topic line. Thanks.

Liz - There are a lot of cases where the vitamin D from sunshine exposure may not be utilized in the body.
I'll post more on this in a new topic as there are some newer research findings that are of interest to afibbers.

Jackie

Quote
Jackie
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Cut back severely on the Fish oil type supplements... you mention Cod Liver Oil, Omega 3's, EPA/DHA, the Vitamin E's.



Jackie

Can i ask why to stop fish oil? because of blood thinning?

Quote
Jackie
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Cut back severely on the Fish oil type supplements... you mention Cod Liver Oil, Omega 3's, EPA/DHA, the Vitamin E's. They actually gave me my omega 3 when i was in the hosptial regulating the tykosin.. (and was on xeralto)



Jackie

Can i ask why to stop fish oil? because of blood thinning?

bettylou... Yes - all of the supplements that contribute to lowering blood viscosity that Madeline mentioned.... have good properties but when starting Rx blood thinners...it's wise to either eliminate or cut back significantly... at least until you've had several months' experience with the anticoagulant before adding smaller doses back in gradually. Everyone is different in how they utilize the supplements and also the 'hypercoaguability status' of their blood when starting the anticoagulant...so it's wise to be cautious.

Therefore, I said to her:

Madeline – I have no argument with you about the many benefits of the supplements you take and the reasons why.
However, when you start a new medication (especially, a blood thinner), for safety and to give the new med the opportunity to function as intended, you must eliminate any potential interferences or complications from nutritional supplements.

It’s better to err on the side of caution. I either eliminated or cut back significantly and added back in after about three weeks… one at a time and at lower doses those upon which I rely for maintaining health. We are all different in needs, heritage and environmental interferences…so choices and dosing are individually unique

Jackie