medical marijuana

i have an appointment with a new EP on Monday ... Christmas eve 740 am... One question i have is medical marijuana. I am considering it for another thing i have going on. I searched on here and found a couple threads- mostly people saying it doesn't help but might make a-fib worse .. but i found this. So i wondered if anyone had any additional thoughts? thanks!

[www.dicardiology.com]

Bettylou: I'm researching medical cannabis, too, for another ailment, prostate cancer, and I've found no double blind study results anywhere on medical cannabis use, including this write up, or any original research and no government research project underway. All of the evidence I've found is anecdotal except for one government approved use in a specialized case for children.

I'm no scientist but the way I read the link you supplied, it's a Univ. of Colo. Cardiology professor compiling a lot of data on patients, which isn't definitive; more of a metadata study?. Of course this one, like all studies says much more work is to be done on the subject.

FWIW, the reports I've seen on cannabis for cancer is that it works by oxidizing the cancer cells which means that all the antioxidants we consume are counter productive.

I'm happy to compare notes with you on medical cannabis but let's take it to the General Health Forum or exchange PM's from here on.

Gordon

If your new EP knows anything at all about the subject I'll be surprised. My personal opinion is marijuana probably doesn't help afib but it also does no harm. I think the claims that it causes or makes arrhythmias worse is just more nonsense cooked up by anti-drug zealots. But unfortunately, as many uses as it may have, I don't think afib is one of them.

There are numerous reports on CBD's anti-inflammatory property that is proposed to have merit for a variety of conditions that are promoted by inflammation.

Here's one clip from: The review, “Cannabinoids, the Heart of the Matter,” published July 17, 2018, in the Journal of the American Heart Association, suggests that cannabinoids — compounds derived from cannabis — should be studied as a treatment for certain heart conditions.

Dr. Joe Goldstrich, a retired cardiologist who is now on the board of the Society of Cannabis Clinicians, said the review article didn’t go into great detail about the cannabinoid he believes holds the true potential benefits for the heart – cannabidiol (CBD). He said CBD has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties, which could be significant in treating atherosclerosis, an inflammatory process by which plaque accumulates in the arteries.

Goldstrich said CBD may be useful to the heart, “but they don’t really deal with that [in the review]. That is one of the things that I see as the most promising uses of cannabinoids in the treatment of cardiovascular disease, CBD.” On the other hand, the cannabinoid THC should be treated with extreme caution in heart patients, he said.

[news.weedmaps.com]

Carey: Not only my EP but my regular Cardiologist, my Medical Oncologist, my Internist, my Radiation Oncologist and Urologist claim to know anything about cannabis or any other supplements for that matter. They are very specialized or else don't want any liability for sharing anecdotal evidence. And, to top it off I live in California, sort of ground Zero for all that stuff.

I see on the Internet that there are plenty of physicians around who want to sell advice about non-prescription treatments but I suspect they are not physicians in practice with major hospitals and would never be Attending.

FWIW, I decided to make my decision on treating my prostate cancer based upon a consensus of my medical mafia. Of course there was no consensus at all. Each preferred their own specialty, or a combination of two of the options. If I were to go through this or something similar again I'd pick one specialist and stick with that person throughout, as I did with Natale when I developed Afib.

Gordon

FWIW there is another angle to cancer if you are interested, it's lengthy but fascinating (for me anyway)
[peterattiamd.com]

I was told there were problems with blood thinners (but what doesn't). Merry Christmas to all!
Nancy

Quote
Nancy2
I was told there were problems with blood thinners (but what doesn't).

I've never heard that. Seems unlikely. I can't think of any drug marijuana and its derivatives interact with.

Cannabis is effective at pain relief and anti-nausea. Please, folks, don’t go thinking it’s a panacea for everything. If you smoke it, it’s tough on the lungs. It’s not a free lunch.

It's also effective for some neurological conditions such as seizure disorders and Parkinson's. In fact, the first marijuana-derived drug was recently approved by the FDA for treatment of some forms of childhood epilepsy. But you're right it's no panacea. I've never heard any credible reports of demonstrated benefits for cardiac issues. Until someone makes a big breakthrough, I think it's probably useless for afib.

Worse. Sent me into Tachy for 5 hours. Fortunately, stayed in NSR.

Nancy2 - and for those who decide to try CBD oil, then very thorough research should be done regarding blood thinners and other heart meds as the reports indicate that it can have some interference with the Cytochrome P-450 pathway/system (liver enzymes) mentioned in various that offer cautionary notices.

Here’s one list… but remember, this is not “marijuana” but rather the cannabidiol oil that is refined from the hemp plant (Cannabis Sativa), and excludes the psychotrophic element THC when used for medicinal purposes… or so I’ve been reading. I have no personal experience with CBD oil but am investigating more as a result of that referenced comment about helping with inflammation and heart health suggesting further study in that area.

Gordon: Note well - Another important issue with CBD oil is using that produced by the oil extraction (patented) process of removing the soil impurities that the hemp plant bioaccumulates… such as herbicides, pesticides and heavy metals. Otherwise, more health issues can easily arise from that.


Drugs that Interact with Cannabidiol
Any drug metabolized by CYP450 enzymes could potentially interact with cannabidiol.
According to the Indiana University Department of Medicine, drugs known to use the CYP450 system include:
• Steroids
• HMG CoA reductase inhibitors
• Calcium channel blockers
• Antihistamines
• Prokinetics
• HIV antivirals
• Immune modulators
• Benzodiazepines
• Antiarrythmics
• Antibiotics
• Anesthetics
• Antipsychotics
• Antidepressants
• Anti-epileptics
• Beta blockers
• PPIs
• NSAIDs
• Angiotension II blockers
• Oral hypoglycemic agents
• Sulfonylureas
Source: [cbdoilreview.org]


My comment… note this long list didn’t mention anticoagulants, but an online search indicates there has been warfarin alterations…so just be aware.

Jackie

That list is ridiculously encompassing and vague. Interact in what way? Says who based on what evidence?

Carey - Not at all. We certainly want to avoid CYP450 pathway interferences and many are known.

Many disruptions can result from a variety of substances

Here's a start...

[www.aafp.org]

[dmd.aspetjournals.org]

Jackie

I know about CYP450. My point is your list is entirely speculative and theoretical and shouldn't be presented as a list of drugs that interact with marijuana. At best, it should be presented as a list of drugs that could possibly interact with marijuana. To my knowledge, no one has investigated whether marijuana has any effect whatsoever on any of those drugs, and based on decades of marijuana use by millions of people, millions of whom also take many of those drugs, I frankly doubt it.

The human body is ridiculously complex. The list of things that happen in vitro but not in vivo is endless. So is the list of things that theoretically could or should happen by this mechanism or that but in fact don't. Just because we can point to a possible mechanism doesn't mean that mechanism actually has an effect. The history of medicine is littered with examples.

I think people need to keep in mind that even doing research on marijuana has been illegal virtually worldwide for nearly 100 years. In the US, up until very recently it's been allowed only with special federal licensing, which has been given out only for studies designed to find harm. Those studies have nearly uniformly failed to find such harm, which they wouldn't have if marijuana had powerful anti-CYP450 properties.

Whether you smoke cannabis or eat it, remember that it can:
•Heighten alcohol’s effects on your body
•Interact with medications. For example, it can raise the dangers of bleeding with blood thinners or make some antiviral drugs not work as well.
•Hurt your concentration and motor skills. It’s dangerous to drive while you’re high

[www.webmd.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2018 04:25PM by Elizabeth.

Quote
Elizabeth
Whether you smoke cannabis or eat it, remember that it can:
•Interact with medications. For example, it can raise the dangers of bleeding with blood thinners or make some antiviral drugs not work as well.

WebMD is a popular news site, not a science citation. Source of that claim, please.

Here's what the Pharmacy Times says about cannabis/drug interactions:
[www.pharmacytimes.com]

Notice that they list lots of "potential" interactions, They mention one case of warfarin increased response in a patient who smoked THC but not if the patient ingested it orally.

It also discusses the interaction with CYP450 enzymes mentioned earlier in this thread.

Godon

Quote
ggheld
Here's what the Pharmacy Times says about cannabis/drug interactions:

Thank you.