Restaurants a Trigger?

I had my first Afib episode 1 yr 8 months ago starting at lunch in a restaurant and ended up in the hospital for 6 days ending with a cardioversion. I have had 4 more episodes since then, all of them starting in a restaurant or on the way home from one. Only one of these restaurants was fast food, the rest were mom and pop, homemade type food, some "gourmet-ish," some homestyle. 2 or 3 were salads, one was an omelet with jack cheese, avocado and hashbrowns. One was a BK Burger and small frosty, one was shrimp salad.
Has anyone else had restaurant food as a trigger? (I'm assuming it was the food!) I am trying to get into NSR right now so I don't have to have another Cardioversion next week. I am hoping that staying out of restaurants will keep me from going through this again, but I'm pretty gun-shy. I am a 68 yr old woman, slightly high blood pressure, tested dairy and gluten sensitivity, but I eat gluten and dairy occasionally at home with no problems. And I have eaten in many restaurants, even the same ones during this time with no affects.

There is a Chinese Buffet and a Steak House locally I could never eat at as I would go out of rhythm after eating there.

There was a lady, Fran (Frances Ross), from Wales who posted here in the pre-2005 timeframe. In her case, glutamate, in all its forms (MSG & on & on) was a big trigger. There have been others who professed this. Fran's story starts on p3 of this PDF <[www.afibbers.org]

During 2015-2016 I had 3 episodes of paroxysmal AF. 2 were after Chinese takeaway food (and I only had such food 2 times in that time period) and 1 was after 2 large bags of 'very tasty' jalapeno pretzel pieces. Lesson learnt - avoid MSG!!

I've noticed that, whatever the food, I'm more likely having HR troubles if I don't stand up and move gently around while digesting, especially after a good meal. It's typically the opposite of what I do in a restaurant : eating a bit too much and sitting longly.

I say your mind is relating that first episode to restaurants. Its hard to control sometimes. At the beginning I had episodes and I would sub-consciously relate them to the smell, the taste, the place, etc. You prob now feel like anytime you eat out you are going to have an episode and get anxious. Just what I think. I cant imagine you are that sensitive to anything in food at every fast food restaurant??? Dont get me wrong I have greatly reduced my intake of all fast food but .....................

Only one of the 5 was fast food. I suspect it is Sulfites. They are often used in cut lettuce and potatoes such as french fries and hash browns. I suspect it is a case of too much accidentally being used in the kitchen. I used to work in restaurants and often saw prep cooks tossing handsful of sulfite powder into a sink full of cut lettuce when only a tablespoon was called for. It is now illegal to use it on any food served without cooking, such as lettuce but I know for a fact it still is. And it is still legal to use on potatoes, apples, etc., anything you want to keep from turning brown. I'm thinking about going to each restaurant, ordering those same meals to go and having a lab test them. It will be well worth it. It could also be MSG, as a few people have mentioned.

George - Good Point about Fran's discovery. Hers was the natural glutamate content in long-cooked meat and her improvement and AF freedom increased as she decreased cooking time.

Russell Blaylock, retired neurosurgeon, emphasizes in brain physiology the excitatory pathways involving the various forms of the amino acid, glutamate, and the glutamate overload consequences which could just as well relate to arrhythmia.

As he explains, while the various cells need small amounts of the amino acid, glutamate, for necessary function, the neurotoxicity issue becomes prevalent when too much accumulates in the body which then allows for excess calcium to be in the cells. Small amounts of calcium are normal and needed but the excess sets up the apoptosis sequence or 'programmed cell death' and involves displacement of the essential electrolyte that offsets calcium... ie, magnesium. So, too much Ca goes in and the Mg goes out; and in the brain situation, there is brain destruction as the glutamate signals for more Ca which promotes the cell-suicide sequence.

That scenario would be applicable to heart cells that depend on Mg for calming. A person low in IC Mg would be prime for the glutamate excess setup due to the calcium change dynamics.

The chemical additive, MSG, for taste enhancement just adds to the problem and it’s ubiquitous in most all commercially prepared foods.... but there is a also natural glutamate content in many other foods including proteins nd also a variety of vegetables including mushrooms, ripe tomatoes, broccoli, walnuts, peas, potatoes, beans… etc..
Here’s one list.. many versions on the Internet. [www.edenfoods.com]


Jackie

The chemical additive, MSG, for taste enhancement just adds to the problem and it’s ubiquitous in most all commercially prepared foods.... but there is a also natural glutamate content in many other foods including proteins nd also a variety of vegetables including mushrooms, ripe tomatoes, broccoli, walnuts, peas, potatoes, beans… etc.. Jackie said the above-------

I eat all of those veggies, I ate ripe tomatoes all of Aug, Sept. and Oct, I had one episode of AF during that time. My blood work is very good. I will continue to eat those foods, there are too many so-called experts out there, I listen to my body not to them.

Liz

There was a time I was absolutely convinced that MSG was a trigger for me. So I did what I always did with suspected triggers -- I tested it. I went to the store, bought a container of Accent, which is just a brand name for pure MSG. I went home, mixed a whopping tablespoon in a glass of water, and drank it.

Nothing happened.

Tried the same thing again the next day with two tablespoons and still nothing.

So much for another "trigger." Every suspected trigger I ever tested proved to be a false positive with the sole exceptions of low potassium and dehydration. I have no doubt binge drinking would test positive but I'll pass on that test.

Liz - Not suggesting you change your diet... just commenting that it's undoubtedly highly individualized... as in Fran's case, she was very sensitive to the natural amino acid content, glutamate, in her food as she demonstrated by altering her cooking methods among other selective measures.

Dr. Blaylock who is a neurologist and retired brain surgeon helps people with severe brain issues and other neurological conditions resulting from the excitotoxins that manifest as a result of the imbalances which in the case of glutamate, push the elevated calcium levels and cause accelerated cell death. Many people have symptoms but the diagnosis of this as an underlying problem goes undetected because dietary intake for foods high in glutamate is often not scrutinized.

For new readers, this is one of many descriptions of the negative effects of high glutamate levels:

GLUTAMATE is an excitatory neurotransmitter that plays a major role in learning and memory. When glutamate (Glu) levels are consistently high, it can be an indicator of excitotoxicity (Alzheimer’s disease, senile dementia). Elevated glutamate levels are associated with panic attacks, anxiety, excess adrenal function, impulsivity, and depression. Low glutamate levels have been associated with agitation, memory loss, sleeplessness, low energy level, insufficient adrenal function, and depression. [www.holisticouncil.org]

Jackie

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Jackie
Liz - Not suggesting you change your diet... just commenting that it's undoubtedly highly individualized... as in Fran's case, she was very sensitive to the natural amino acid content, glutamate, in her food as she demonstrated by altering her cooking methods among other selective measures.

Dr. Blaylock who is a neurologist and retired brain surgeon helps people with severe brain issues and other neurological conditions resulting from the excitotoxins that manifest as a result of the imbalances which in the case of glutamate, push the elevated calcium levels and cause accelerated cell death. Many people have symptoms but the diagnosis of this as an underlying problem goes undetected because dietary intake for foods high in glutamate is often not scrutinized.

For new readers, this is one of many descriptions of the negative effects of high glutamate levels:

GLUTAMATE is an excitatory neurotransmitter that plays a major role in learning and memory. When glutamate (Glu) levels are consistently high, it can be an indicator of excitotoxicity (Alzheimer’s disease, senile dementia). Elevated glutamate levels are associated with panic attacks, anxiety, excess adrenal function, impulsivity, and depression. Low glutamate levels have been associated with agitation, memory loss, sleeplessness, low energy level, insufficient adrenal function, and depression. [www.holisticouncil.org]

Jackie

From the Eden Foods link you provided:

" In a healthy person, the body controls the amount of glutamic acid that it takes from protein. Excess glutamic acid is not stored by the body, preventing toxicity. It is passed off as waste. Utilized this way, glutamic acid from eating protein is harmless."

Excessive accumulations of glutamate is the concern. As stated, glutamate is needed in very minor amounts but when (for some reason) the body is not clearing out all but small amounts, that's when the excitotoxicity issue is activated.
Quoting Dr. Blaylock:
... "when concentrations rise above a critical level, they can become deadly toxins to the neurons. This latter point is especially important. What it means is that excessive glutamate will not only kill the neurons with the receptors for glutamate but it will also kill any neurons that happen to be connected to it, even if that neuron uses another type of receptor. This becomes important in the discussions on Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease."
Source: Excitotoxins - The Taste That Kills, by Russell L. Blaylock, MD.

Jackie

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Jackie
Excessive accumulations of glutamate is the concern. As stated, glutamate is needed in very minor amounts but when (for some reason) the body is not clearing out all but small amounts, that's when the excitotoxicity issue is activated.
Quoting Dr. Blaylock:
... "when concentrations rise above a critical level, they can become deadly toxins to the neurons. This latter point is especially important. What it means is that excessive glutamate will not only kill the neurons with the receptors for glutamate but it will also kill any neurons that happen to be connected to it, even if that neuron uses another type of receptor. This becomes important in the discussions on Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease."
Source: Excitotoxins - The Taste That Kills, by Russell L. Blaylock, MD.

To herbal medicine and alternative treatment groups, he sells alternative treatments for neurological disorders that he claims stem from aspartame, MSG and other food additives."

Jackie

"Among his earlier campaigns Blaylock opposed food additives like aspartame and MSG. He had a wagon-full of junk science claims in his book regarding ‘excitotoxins’–a term he helped coin that is found in several homeopathic and alternative health snake oil sales sites. [1] Blaylock also promotes chemtrail conspiracies alleging cancer-causing nanoparticles as being purposefully released into the atmosphere in a government-corporate scheme.[2] Skeptic’s Dictionary and QuackWatch call him an anti-vaxxer [3] while selling his own line of “Brain Repair Formula” supplements. He has been called “quack of the day” by The Vaccine Conspiracy Theorist.[4]

To herbal medicine and alternative treatment groups, he sells alternative treatments for neurological disorders that he claims stem from aspartame, MSG and other food additives."

[geneticliteracyproject.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 09:57AM by jpeters.

Elizabeth sadi:I eat all of those veggies, I ate ripe tomatoes all of Aug, Sept. and Oct, I had one episode of AF during that time. My blood work is very good. I will continue to eat those foods, there are too many so-called experts out there, I listen to my body not to them.


Liz, Everyone is different....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 01:25PM by CareyG.

Carey said:There was a time I was absolutely convinced that MSG was a trigger for me. So I did what I always did with suspected triggers -- I tested it. I went to the store, bought a container of Accent, which is just a brand name for pure MSG. I went home, mixed a whopping tablespoon in a glass of water, and drank it.

Nothing happened.

Tried the same thing again the next day with two tablespoons and still nothing.

So much for another "trigger." Every suspected trigger I ever tested proved to be a false positive with the sole exceptions of low potassium and dehydration. I have no doubt binge drinking would test positive but I'll pass on that test.


Carey, Haha, you're brave! I would never try that for fear of ending up in the hospital having to undergo a cardioversion. Been there, done that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 01:24PM by CareyG.

Carey G said:
Liz, Everyone is different....

Not that different.

liz

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Elizabeth
Carey G said:
Liz, Everyone is different....

Not that different.

liz

People subscribe to different beliefs

Regarding the Blaylock comments:

There are always those organizations on the opposite side of what those with advanced education and training in Functional Medicine promote as safe and responsible treatment of patients through more natural types of medicine rather resorting to harmful chemicals that can produce serious side effects including that of vaccines, water fluoridation and chemical additives in foods that result in cellular neurotoxicity and of course, there is the vested interest or profits from various drugs approved by the FDA and sanctioned as “safe.” There are many websites devoted to discrediting all types of practitioners who have taken an advanced methodology for diagnosis and treatment so I’m not at all surprised to see negative press on on Dr. Blaylock… he has a lot of good company.

What is surprising though is… since the referenced Genetic Literacy Project link provides quotes Quack Watchers as one of their reliable reference resources, I am skeptical (without further research) that they are a reliable resource that’s really looking for the truth. Quack Watchers was ‘busted’ in court many years ago for false and misleading or ‘tainted’ information. You’d think they would have at least changed their name after that if they became legit. Who would continue to quote that organization?

Dr. Blaylock’s neurotoxicity work is well known and supported by others doing the same type of awareness practices to help avoid adding to the continuing increase of neurological damage including brain function which is projected to triple by 2050 -- even double would be tragic when understanding the impact of various chemical exposures on neurons.
Example: Neurons are specialized cells of the nervous system that use the electrical potential across the membrane of all cells, which in neurons have evolved a special function, to trigger depolarizations that send an electrical signal down their axons which then sends a signal to another cell.

Not all neurons are in the brain. There are neurons in the spinal cord and in the peripheral nervous system as well.
Further, not all neurons contribute directly to the mind – conscious processes – or even subconscious processes beyond some basic sensory feedback to the brain. There is, for example, the autonomic nervous system, which (as the name implies) is concerned not with thinking but with regulating basic bodily function. This includes the function of the GI system and the heart. [theness.com]

Sound familiar? Maybe a percentage of atrial fibrillation is associated with intrinsic damage over time from various chemical exposures such as glutamate accumulations of which we are unaware or were aware (like fluoridated water) but bought into the party line that it is harmless. We might never know, because, for sure, studies won’t be done to prove it but the stats confirm the increasing incidence and prevalence of various brain dysfunction and neurological factors is increasing and affecting younger and younger subsets in the population.

In any event, the science is there for those who understand it and want to connect the dots for a connection to damaging nerve cells and excessive glutamate… regardless of the form, it can and does accumulate in the body. (and other toxic chemicals as well.) Too much accumulation can be damaging.

Integrative cardiologist, Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D., F.A.C.C., F.A.C.N., C.N.S., C.B.T.,
posts on his website, a report by Dr. Blaylock
Vaccines, Depression and Neurodegeneration After Age 50 Years -
[heartmdinstitute.com] (70 references)

He and other physicians dedicated to exposing the truth about the many harmful side effects of common chemical exposures in our environment including vaccines are helping clarify ….

My mission has always been about Awareness… even before AF entered my life … because of my unintentional exposure to other toxic substances that unfortunately impacted my life significantly.

Knowledge is Power.

Jackie

Atrial fibrillation is the most common condition of irregular heart rhythm and exists in at least one percent of the population. The condition becomes more common as age increases. It is rare in young people and more common in people over eighty years old. Also, as we have noted on this board, many have relatives that also have AF the belief is it is in our DNA, not in our water or food.

My mother had AF in her 80s, I believe my grandmother also had AF, my relatives lived on a farm, raised their own food, no water with added fluoride or sprays. I too always had my own well, no fluoride added, always had a garden, watched what I ate still got AF, my husband did not have AF, ate what I did, drank the same water. These doctors that Jackie is quoting are latching onto things that perhaps have some merit but that is all, many have come to this board, read and eventually got an ablation, even Hans and Jackie. It certainly doesn't hurt to try a lot of things that are spoken of and could be of help. Magnesium helped me a lot, I thank the board for this info. but what I don't believe is fluoride and sprays, fluoride and sprays etc. etc. My Holistic doc. had an episode of AF, I am sure he doesn't partake of fluoride or sprays. I have an ear, nose and throat doc who probably is in his sixties and has had AF.

AF has been around for hundreds of years:

A brief history

Perhaps the earliest description of atrial fibrillation is in The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine (Huang Ti Nei Ching Su Wen). The legendary emperor physician is believed to have ruled China between 1696 and 2598 BC. The poor prognosis associated with chaotic irregularity of the pulse was clearly acknowledged by most of the ancient physicians, but in recorded history, William Harvey in 1628 was probably the first to describe “fibrillation of the auricles” in animals.

In clinical practice and with the aid of Laennec's recently invented stethoscope, Robert Adams reported in 1827 the association of irregular pulses with mitral stenosis; in 1863, Etienne Marey published a pulse tracing from such a patient. Other early descriptions of atrial fibrillation and its importance were published early this century by Sir James Mackenzie and Heinrich Hering.

The discovery of the therapeutic properties of digitalis leaf (Digitalis purpurea) in 1785 by William Withering brought some relief to patients with severe heart failure. It is interesting that Withering recorded a patient who had a weak, irregular pulse that became “more full and more regular” after five draughts containing Fol Digital Purp oz iv. In 1935 Jean Baptiste Bouilland said that he considered digitalis to be “a sort of opium for the heart.”

https:/www.bmj.com/content/311/7016/1361

Liz



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 02:14PM by Elizabeth.

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Elizabeth

. It is interesting that Withering recorded a patient who had a weak, irregular pulse that became “more full and more regular” after five draughts containing Fol Digital Purp oz iv. In 1935 Jean Baptiste Bouilland said that he considered digitalis to be “a sort of opium for the heart.”


Liz

Now known as Digoxin, which can't be mentioned on this board.

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jpeters
Now known as Digoxin, which can't be mentioned on this board.

Sure it can. If you have heart failure it might be appropriate for you. If you don't have heart failure and you're taking it for afib, you might want to find a doctor who has cracked a cardiology journal and attended a conference or two in the last 20 years.

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Carey

Now known as Digoxin, which can't be mentioned on this board.

Sure it can. If you have heart failure it might be appropriate for you. If you don't have heart failure and you're taking it for afib, you might want to find a doctor who has cracked a cardiology journal and attended a conference or two in the last 20 years.

right, you couldn't resist

I had both, but thanks to horrible treatment, everything is back to normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 08:28PM by jpeters.

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jpeters
right, you couldn't resist

I admit I couldn't, but you must admit you rather invited it.