Are we just the beginning?

We all notice the "afib" commercials on tv. Usually the adds are related to stroke prevention....
I was surprised today to hear a Kardia Mobile commercial on the radio. The commercial boasted being able to take real time ekg anytime
You feel the need. Also focused on afib.
I often wonder what the numbers are of confirmed afib cases from 1960 to present (year to year)

So I assume from the increase in attention on media, afib is on a sharp rise

The death rate from AFib as the primary or a contributing cause of death has been rising for more than two decades.3,4



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2018 09:13PM by tsco.

I've read somewhere that afib has been described some 2000 years ago.
I don't know if there is more afib now than 20, 50, 100 years ago, but as the population is increasing and the access to medicine too, it's likely that more afib cases are diagnosed, both in number and percentage.
The proportion of afibbers only diagnosed after a stroke is far from negligible too.

Yeah, it's been known since antiquity.

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The proportion of afibbers only diagnosed after a stroke is far from negligible too.

Those cases are sad. It says either they weren't receiving competent primary care at all (probably the majority) or some doctor didn't act appropriately.

Carey, they may have been unlucky. I'm still surprised knowing many afibbers don't feel their afib.
I don't remember having had an ECG before my first afib episode. I was 57. I suddenly felt there was something wrong with my HR. About 15 min before seeing my GP, I went back to NSR, so the ECG was normal. When I got my second attack, I went to the ER and was diagnosed with afib.
People who don't feel their afib likely don't ask to have an ECG done or to wear a holter monitor.
I'm now 60 and, since Dec 2015, I've suffered 240+ afib episodes. None of them has been recorded by any of the 3 holter monitors I wore.
I never had any afib while being near my cardiologist. I've been diagnosed because I'm symptomatic and, excepted those recorded in the ER or while I was in the hospital for an ablation procedure, all of my documented afib episodes have been recorded with my own single lead monitor.

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tsco

So I assume from the increase in attention on media, afib is on a sharp rise

Apple will be releasing iOS 12.1 alongside an incremental update to watchOS (likely 5.1) in about a week that will enable the EKG from the Apple Watch series 4. That's why Kardia has upped their marketing & advertising.Kardia has and/or will lose/continue to lose revenue to the Apple machine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2018 05:46PM by AB Page.

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Pompon
Carey, they may have been unlucky. I'm still surprised knowing many afibbers don't feel their afib.
I don't remember having had an ECG before my first afib episode. I was 57.

A routine physical includes an ECG. If you'd never had one by the age of 57 either you weren't doing periodic physicals or your PCP was negligent.

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Carey

Carey, they may have been unlucky. I'm still surprised knowing many afibbers don't feel their afib.
I don't remember having had an ECG before my first afib episode. I was 57.

A routine physical includes an ECG. If you'd never had one by the age of 57 either you weren't doing periodic physicals or your PCP was negligent.

"Usually, you do not need an ECG if you don’t have risk factors for heart disease or symptoms that suggest possible heart disease.

The test is not useful in routine checkups for people who do not have risk factors for heart disease such as high blood pressure or symptoms of heart disease, like chest pain."

[choosingwiselycanada.org]

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jpeters
"Usually, you do not need an ECG if you don’t have risk factors for heart disease or symptoms that suggest possible heart disease.

The test is not useful in routine checkups for people who do not have risk factors for heart disease such as high blood pressure or symptoms of heart disease, like chest pain."

Frankly, I think that advice is a load of crap. I know of a number of people who had zero risk factors and discovered they were in persistent afib only because of a routine ECG. They're cheap, quick, non-invasive and IMO should be done on everyone over 50 at least every few years. The fact that Canada wants to reduce costs at the expense of increasing stroke and heart failure risk does not impress me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2018 08:47PM by Carey.

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jpeters

"Usually, you do not need an ECG if you don’t have risk factors for heart disease or symptoms that suggest possible heart disease.

The test is not useful in routine checkups for people who do not have risk factors for heart disease such as high blood pressure or symptoms of heart disease, like chest pain."

[choosingwiselycanada.org]

No way. That’s some insurer or white coat elitist talking out of their you-know-what. Go tell an electrician that a multimeter check isn’t necessary before grabbing a high voltage wire. After all, we could save on multimeters! A few dead electricians is worth it.

Data is valuable. Knowledge is power. And few “stickies” on a person’s chest and limbs for a minute or two carries ZERO risk whatsoever.

The argument here is for lower cost EKGs, which is exactly what Kardia and Apple Watch provide. The fact that the establishment doesn’t like it delights me.

You can get an EKG and everything is good and drop dead from a heart attack the next day, it has happened.

Liz

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wolfpack



No way. That’s some insurer or white coat elitist talking out of their you-know-what. Go tell an electrician that a multimeter check isn’t necessary before grabbing a high voltage wire. After all, we could save on multimeters! A few dead electricians is worth it.
.

An electrician knows how to read a multimeter. A GP most likely would have only a basic understanding, so without concrete symptoms, it wouldn't mean much.

"Doc, I feel fine, but it says here that my ST is >.15mV."
"Okay Tom, I think we should try statins while we put you on the list for potential transplant."
"Thanks doc, you're always thinking ahead. "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2018 01:31AM by jpeters.

I’m surprised at some of the responses to what is about being proactive and looking for the best possible treatment and outcomes for oneself.

Wolfpack and Carey’s comments are just common sense. If you don’t look out for yourself who will.

Having an ECG Is cheap and non invasive and just may save your life. It may not show anything the first time, or the second time but nothing has been lost in the process.

Rather than arguing why you shouldn’t have one, I’d much rather argue why I should.

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JoyWin
It may not show anything the first time, or the second time but nothing has been lost in the process.
.

Gained, in fact, even if it is perfectly normal. Then you have a baseline to compare future readings against.

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JoyWin
I’m surprised at some of the responses to what is about being proactive and looking for the best possible treatment and outcomes for oneself.

Wolfpack and Carey’s comments are just common sense. If you don’t look out for yourself who will.

Having an ECG Is cheap and non invasive and just may save your life. It may not show anything the first time, or the second time but nothing has been lost in the process.

Rather than arguing why you shouldn’t have one, I’d much rather argue why I should.

They are generally NOT recommended unless there is a reason to administer them. The problem is a large percentage of false positives on any test, that lead to procedures like angioplasty. Establishing a base line is helpful, and perhaps one every five years unless there is a reason to do one every year (history, symptoms, high risk group, etc).

[www.webmd.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2018 10:17AM by jpeters.

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jpeters
The problem is a large percentage of false positives on any test, that lead to procedures like angioplasty.

Anyone undergoing angioplasty or any other invasive procedure based solely on an ECG has a quack for a doctor to begin with.

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Carey

The problem is a large percentage of false positives on any test, that lead to procedures like angioplasty.

Anyone undergoing angioplasty or any other invasive procedure based solely on an ECG has a quack for a doctor to begin with.

They are often done at the same time that you have an angiogram, so good luck.

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jpeters
They are often done at the same time that you have an angiogram, so good luck.

Of course they are. They're done during almost any invasive cardiac procedure. But that's not what I said. I said angiograms aren't done based solely on an ECG. I can't think of any invasive procedure that's done based solely on an ECG.

Medicare does not even have a actual yearly physical. They have a yearly Wellness Check which is a pile of crap. I have to go to my Cardiologist for a routine ECG or it will not be covered but this is at a premium cost. Cardiologist or Specialist are very expensive.

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Carey

They are often done at the same time that you have an angiogram, so good luck.

Of course they are. They're done during almost any invasive cardiac procedure. But that's not what I said. I said angiograms aren't done based solely on an ECG. I can't think of any invasive procedure that's done based solely on an ECG.

The angiogram usually is precipitated by a stress test, which can follow the ECG. In my case, it was a false positive.


From the posted link. Note the word lead:
"Among the possible harms are false-positive EKGs. Those could lead to unnecessary procedures such as angioplasty, she says."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2018 04:40PM by jpeters.

Yeah, I get the concept of ECG leading to stress test leading to angiogram, etc. The problem is blaming the doctor who did a perfectly reasonable, cheap, non-invasive screening on his patient. That's not the mistake. And neither is a stress test and echocardiogram to find out if the ECG results were more than a nothing. Those are all perfectly reasonable steps, especially for patients over a certain age. The mistake is the specialists who over-interpret the results and order unnecessary invasive procedures. To try and solve this problem by cutting off simple, cheap, harmless procedures like ECGs is just the wrong solution. It's sacrificing silent afib patients to save victims of a more systemic medical system problem.

This past Jan. I had an ECG apparently when my pacemaker was pacing, the doctors couldn't read it because of the pacing. I realize these doctors were not that adept, but isn't that the problem.

L