Can’t figure out the triggers

Quote
Jackie
However, some forward-thinking doctors have asked...if you block the calcium, where does the excess calcium go? It gets deposited into arteries ... according to a paper presented at European Cardiology Society in Amsterdam noting CCBs caused 85,000 avoidable heart attacks and cases of heart failure each year.

Interesting. I've read just the opposite.

"Calcium channel blockers, also called calcium antagonists, decrease the rate at which calcium flows into the heart and blood vessel walls. This, says Zanchetti, appears to have the beneficial effect of slowing the growth of cells that line the blood vessels and arteries and reducing the size of plaques, the fat deposits that accumulate in arteries. "

[www.sciencedaily.com]

Quote
Jackie


For those on vegan diets, there is more than abundant calcium content in the vegan foods to satisfy the body’s requirements so avoiding dairy isn't really a penalty that requires supplementation with extra calcium. The risks of too much calcium and especially in afibbers is real and correct from a basic, biochemistry standpoint.

They can probably get all they need from fruits and vegetables. No need for supplements. That's a lot different from saying people don't need calcium (you didn't). The exact requirement is unknown, so you can't quote a number that's right for everyone.

Scary article on calcium channel blockers:

"Blocking the flow of calcium is dangerous since calcium is essential for normal cell life and operation – as well as for the whole body. Without sufficient calcium, you cannot live."

[www.justlivewell.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2018 01:05PM by jpeters.

As I wrote in a couple of threads, I've frequent but short afib episodes.
I'm supplementing with Mg bisglycinate, I've still afib, but better sleep.

Since two days, I've started cutting on my calcium consumption. I like cheese and dairy products, so I've banned them for a moment. I'll see if it does something...
(I've already done this, but back then, I wasn't supplementing with Mg.)

Quote
jpeters
Scary article on calcium channel blockers:

Until you notice that the newest research they relied on to arrive at the scary article is 18 years old and contradicted by larger, more recent studies. For example:

Quote

CONCLUSION:
Our study demonstrates that CCBs reduce the risk of all-cause mortality compared with active therapy and prevent heart failure compared with placebo. Furthermore, with the inclusion of recent trials, we confirm that they reduce the risk of stroke, also in comparison to angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors and do not increase the risk of cardiovascular death, myocardial infarction and major cardiovascular events.

And:

Quote

Conclusions This large population-based study provides strong evidence that CCB use is not associated with an increased risk of cancer. The analyses yielded robust results across all types of cancer and different durations of exposure to CCBs.

Quote
Carey

Scary article on calcium channel blockers:


Until you notice that the newest research they relied on to arrive at the scary article is 18 years old and contradicted by larger, more recent studies. For example:

Yours is from 2009 I assume they have a beneficial role (lowering mortality) and am glad they don't cause cancer (I'm currently taking some diltiazem). The quoted article was more about the importance of getting enough calcium..which probably hasn't changed much in the last 18 years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2018 02:50PM by jpeters.

Do you need calcium, yes. You just don't need too much. I took the dairy consumption data and hip fracture incidence from this table <[www.nature.com] and plotted them. It this associational, yes. But since dairy is a big source of calcium, it is reasonable to do. Years before I recall seeing that countries with calcium intakes/day <500mg had some of the lowest hip fracture rates.. Are there other variables, certainly. In my wife's and my case, we get around 600 mg/day. We aren't vegan but consume no dairy. In Sept 2017 we did DEXA bone density scans. I have a t-score of 0.3 and she's a 0.9. A positive t score is how many standard deviations your bone density is above the mean for a person of your sex at age 30. I'm 63 and my wife is 58.



Here are the top 8

Hip fractures/100,000 Dairy kg/yr
Denmark 853 295.62
Sweden 802.8 355.86
Kazakhstan 651.1 260
United States 595 253.8
Norway 563 261.52
Belgium 538.7 238.47
United Kingdom 523.5 241.47
Germany 522 247.24

Did you factor out income, protein, and lactose persistence? Also, dairy consumption is different than calcium intake. There are also lots of other variables associated with wealthier countries. One other thing, there are probably over 60 factors that contribute to hip replacements, least of which would be consuming dairy. Nice job, though



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2018 05:22PM by jpeters.

Quote
The Anti-Fib
Did you ever follow up on an Endocrine/Cortisol check-up, as suggested in in your earlier Post? A Saliva Cortisol 4X/day test would tell what is going on with Adrenal output. The fact that you can sense it coming on several hours prior suggests some sort of intermittent Hormonal or Electrolytic imbalance. I had intermittent periods of Adrenal Suppression which triggered AFIB. I felt wiped out and unsually tired for about a day prior to my episodes.

Finally getting a chance to post this up, everything is elevated.


Also, went out of NSR this morning during a karate workout (not the norm at all). Didn’t get a chance to get on the bike today, but hopeful that tomorrow am at the gym with snap me back into NSR.

I understand that everyone is different and things effect people differently. I just wish I could find a doctor willing to work through it with me rather than prescribe pharmaceuticals or do an ablation. I guess we are our own doctors. Thank you so very much to everyone for their insights, I really do appreciate it.

Beardman:

I think every Dr. will want you on Blood Thinners. If it was only an episode every 2 months, then they would be more inclined to accept no Anti-Coagulation. Keep in mind when you are doing your research, that Paroximal AFIB could mean bi-monthly episodes, or 1-2 a week like yours.

The other thing is that you are relatively early in your discovery of your AFIB. You have done well and better than most in understanding this complex condition you have. Patience is warranted here. I still think you should medicate during episodes, and I stand by my post regarding this in your initial Thread several months ago.

Quote
The Anti-Fib
Beardman:

I think every Dr. will want you on Blood Thinners. If it was only an episode every 2 months, then they would be more inclined to accept no Anti-Coagulation. Keep in mind when you are doing your research, that Paroximal AFIB could mean bi-monthly episodes, or 1-2 a week like yours.

The other thing is that you are relatively early in your discovery of your AFIB. You have done well and better than most in understanding this complex condition you have. Patience is warranted here. I still think you should medicate during episodes, and I stand by my post regarding this in your initial Thread several months ago.

I understand am trying to be patient with this, but as you all know it is tough. It is especially difficult for me when I appear to be doing to same thing and am receiving different results. I keep a journal of everything that I can think relates to this. My new things to make note of will be the calcium intake also any association with bradycardia and perhaps Hawthorne berry (Iv’e been doing a fair amount of reading on that as well).

From an outside point of view I don’t disagree with the medication. They would have just such a huge impact on my life being that they want me to stop any martial arts at all while on the blood thinners. On top of this, it seems that the pharmaceuticals are only a temporary solution for most people, especially when their younger. Oh, and then their is the huge cost as well. I requested a blood thinner that had a reversal agent, apparently that is only Pradaxa. It would cost around $600/month just for that. I think the flecainide was another $150 or so and I am supposed to take that twice daily everyday.

Completely understand the frustration. Bear in mind, though, that we are all biologics and not machines. The same set of inputs does not always have to produce the same set of outputs. AF is a progressive disease. It will change over time. As things are today, there are really 3 choices for AF: don’t treat, medicate, ablate.

Eliquis has a reversal agent that was recently approved. It is called Andexxa. Your physician may not be aware of it yet. I’m not sure if there’s a big cost difference with respect to Pradaxa, though. It would be worth asking.

Quote
wolfpack
Completely understand the frustration. Bear in mind, though, that we are all biologics and not machines. The same set of inputs does not always have to produce the same set of outputs. AF is a progressive disease. It will change over time. As things are today, there are really 3 choices for AF: don’t treat, medicate, ablate.

Eliquis has a reversal agent that was recently approved. It is called Andexxa. Your physician may not be aware of it yet. I’m not sure if there’s a big cost difference with respect to Pradaxa, though. It would be worth asking.

I will check out Eliquis so that maybe I have another option, thank you.

Kind of just had an aha moment this morning and feel like a real idiot. My bp is right around 105/70, but that is only due to me increasing my sodium intake years ago. It used to be 90/60 or so (that was also when I was MUCH heavier). I just looked through my notes and my sodium intake has been in the 2000-2,500mg range daily for years. I don’t know why this never dawned upon me before. All my blood tests have always been normal, but this must be having an impact, I would think especially with my potassium balance, no?

With the three different cardiologists and the EP that I saw, not one of them even asked about my diet. I was very clear with all of them that I kept very good records of everything and even asked if changes in my diet might help. I always received the blanket statement that eating better is always good for you . . . What is,”better” when you don’t know what I’m eating! Sorry for the vent.

I’m have cut my ca intake down to 200-300mg
I have discontinued L-arginine
I am going to taper my sodium intake down and increase my K intake up.

We shall see

Quote
beardman
With the three different cardiologists and the EP that I saw, not one of them even asked about my diet. I was very clear with all of them that I kept very good records of everything and even asked if changes in my diet might help. I always received the blanket statement that eating better is always good for you . . . What is,”better” when you don’t know what I’m eating! Sorry for the vent.

Actually, I somewhat understand their attitude. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of posts on multiple forums over the years from people who do various things with diet and supplements to try and manage their afib. Nothing stands out consistently as being truly helpful. Now imagine EPs who've seen thousands of afib patients and heard almost every one of them ask questions like that. What else can they say when they know there is no particular diet or supplement that will help everyone, or even most people? So they fall back on all they really can say with certainty: eating a healthy, balanced diet is always smart. It may not do a damn thing for your afib, but it won't make it worse.

Beardman:

You bet diet is very important, actually salt is necessary as well. Sea salt is what you should take as it has minerals. People do not feel well when sodium levels are lowered, their energy level drops and they develop hormonal and immune system imbalances. I also take magnesium, not a lot, but some everyday, years ago I used to have pacs which mag. stopped.

Most doctors don't want to listen about diet as that isn't their business, they are in the business of handing out pills or (slash and burn) not trying to find out what is causing your problems. I have had episodes of AF off and on for almost 20 years, magnesium has helped as has my diet. I grow most of my veggies and fruits, I eat nuts, chicken, some beef and fish, I work hard which is my exercise do not drink or smoke. Don't tell me that what you eat and the exercise you get isn't helpful towards your AF.

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth


Most doctors don't want to listen about diet as that isn't their business, they are in the business of handing out pills or (slash and burn) not trying to find out what is causing your problems.

Liz

Yes, that's what worked. I've always maintained a very healthy lifestyle, but got afib anyway. Some slash and burn better than others. None really cared what caused it.

Quote
beardman

Beardman:

I think every Dr. will want you on Blood Thinners. If it was only an episode every 2 months, then they would be more inclined to accept no Anti-Coagulation. Keep in mind when you are doing your research, that Paroximal AFIB could mean bi-monthly episodes, or 1-2 a week like yours.

The other thing is that you are relatively early in your discovery of your AFIB. You have done well and better than most in understanding this complex condition you have. Patience is warranted here. I still think you should medicate during episodes, and I stand by my post regarding this in your initial Thread several months ago.

I understand am trying to be patient with this, but as you all know it is tough. It is especially difficult for me when I appear to be doing to same thing and am receiving different results. I keep a journal of everything that I can think relates to this. My new things to make note of will be the calcium intake also any association with bradycardia and perhaps Hawthorne berry (Iv’e been doing a fair amount of reading on that as well).

From an outside point of view I don’t disagree with the medication. They would have just such a huge impact on my life being that they want me to stop any martial arts at all while on the blood thinners. On top of this, it seems that the pharmaceuticals are only a temporary solution for most people, especially when their younger. Oh, and then their is the huge cost as well. I requested a blood thinner that had a reversal agent, apparently that is only Pradaxa. It would cost around $600/month just for that. I think the flecainide was another $150 or so and I am supposed to take that twice daily everyday.

If you just take Flecainide during an Episode, then you wouldn't need to use very much, especially if it shortens the event. I don't know where your at, but I think Flec is cheap in the US. If you can shorten your episodes down, then all of the other risks will be minimized. The issues with Stroke risk and TachyCardia induced Heart Failure, etc.

Hi Beardman-
I'm sorry you have to deal with this and understand it all too well. I just turned 45 so now how it is to get this diagnosis and feel like your life is in flux to say the least. Take the time to do some more reading, and I think you will likely conclude that an ablation is the way to go. You are young with a structurally sound heart so your success rate with a top EP will be very high. This is the best method of trying to get off these meds, at least temporarily. I've seen lots of people in your age group with years of med free NSR after a successful ablation. You will of course need to continue not to over-exercise and watch all of the other lifestyle factors- but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you. I don't see why you can't do martial arts on a blood thinner. If it's high contact then yes you might be banged up with bruises. The biggest risk would be hits to the head which hopefully isn't part of the protocol. I am snowboarding on a blood thinner. I don't go out on icy days, wear my helmet, and have a medical ID on me. My top EP advised me that the biggest risk is a bad head injury, and if you have one you'd be in trouble even if not on a blood thinner. I'm choosing to live my life with this diagnosis and try to accept it and move on. You are new to this and all of that will take time. But know that you can still do the things you love and will get through this.
Tracy

Quote
Dinodog
Hi Beardman-
I'm sorry you have to deal with this and understand it all too well. I just turned 45 so now how it is to get this diagnosis and feel like your life is in flux to say the least. Take the time to do some more reading, and I think you will likely conclude that an ablation is the way to go. You are young with a structurally sound heart so your success rate with a top EP will be very high. This is the best method of trying to get off these meds, at least temporarily. I've seen lots of people in your age group with years of med free NSR after a successful ablation. You will of course need to continue not to over-exercise and watch all of the other lifestyle factors- but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you. I don't see why you can't do martial arts on a blood thinner. If it's high contact then yes you might be banged up with bruises. The biggest risk would be hits to the head which hopefully isn't part of the protocol. I am snowboarding on a blood thinner. I don't go out on icy days, wear my helmet, and have a medical ID on me. My top EP advised me that the biggest risk is a bad head injury, and if you have one you'd be in trouble even if not on a blood thinner. I'm choosing to live my life with this diagnosis and try to accept it and move on. You are new to this and all of that will take time. But know that you can still do the things you love and will get through this.
Tracy

Thank you for the response, I feel like a lot of the time this forum is as much a support group as it is an information resource. Since dropping my Ca levels down and stopping the L-Arginine I have noticed an interesting response. I modified my diet last weekend and it took me until karate on Tuesday to get back in NSR. Having said that though, I have been in rhythm since then with the exception of yesterday. Yesterday my resting hr was 50 and while running around work I noticed what seemed like a few PAC’s. I checked and I was out of NSR, about a minute later I was back in NSR. The same thing happened two more times yesterday afternoon. This may be normal for most of you all, but for me, once I’m out of NSR, I don’t go back in without a workout 99% of the time.

Regarding the anti-coagulation meds, yes, all the different cardiologists were concerned about head injuries. The biggest thing I think that scared me away from any meds was that everyone seemed to have their own different spin that was counterintelligent to the last guy. I know everyone is different and there is more than one way to skin a cat, but it just didn’t give me that comfortable feeling.

For right now, I have a couple of herniated/sequestered discs to deal with so hopefully the diet changes can make s difference.

Sounds like you're onto something with that pesky little Ca2+ ion. You know what happens when you work out? You excrete a lot of it in sweat. Na+ too. Hence the white-ish stains on your clothes after they've dried.

Beardman - The support factor is definitely an important part of the forum. Always has been. I'm pleased to see your cutting back on the Ca and arginine helped and as time goes on, you'll probably see continued stability but you also may need further reductions. What are the numbers of the herniated discs?

Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Beardman - The support factor is definitely an important part of the forum. Always has been. I'm pleased to see your cutting back on the Ca and arginine helped and as time goes on, you'll probably see continued stability but you also may need further reductions. What are the numbers of the herniated discs?

Jackie

Hoping for a microdiscectomy around L5, but it looks like at least L4 too. I’m having severe sciatic pain and foot drop in my right side. The Neurosurgeon seemed to think it would be an outpatient procedure. Too many years of not taking care of myself has started to catch up.

Beardman - oh - yeah ...well, too low in the spine.... I was curious to know if the disc issues were higher up and had some impingement in areas of the vagus nerve, but not down there. I certainly wish you every success with the procedure.
There are some specialists in this area that are injecting special forms of what I'll call "collagen" for lack of a better term...into areas to help regenerate discs which are the 'cushions' between the bones of the spine. The results are said to be amazing. I have no personal experience... just hearing from others. You definitely want to get those repaired as minimally invasive as possible...so you can get back to a normal, active life. Keep us posted.

Best to you,
Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Beardman - oh - yeah ...well, too low in the spine.... I was curious to know if the disc issues were higher up and had some impingement in areas of the vagus nerve, but not down there. I certainly wish you every success with the procedure.
There are some specialists in this area that are injecting special forms of what I'll call "collagen" for lack of a better term...into areas to help regenerate discs which are the 'cushions' between the bones of the spine. The results are said to be amazing. I have no personal experience... just hearing from others. You definitely want to get those repaired as minimally invasive as possible...so you can get back to a normal, active life. Keep us posted.

Best to you,
Jackie

My cousin is actually a rep for one of those companies. He is sending my MRI around for some opinions. I’m guessing though with the nerve damage (numbness and foot drop) that surgery will be the instant fix that I’m going to need.

Just when I thought I was making headway . . .

The decrease in Ca+ seemed to be working wonders. I went 6+ days without a single episode. Unfortunately, that ended for me Tuesday morning while I was sleeping (I have never recorded an episode during sleep before). I have been out of rhythm since then no matter what workout(s) I have tried.

During this 6 day stretch, my resting heart rate was floating around 45 and dropping down to 30-35 during sleep. I was still working out almost every day and I was feeling great!

Any ideas now?

"Calcium is especially important for athletes because they are more likely to lose calcium, as well as other minerals, through perspiration."

[www.uofmhealth.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2018 11:20AM by jpeters.

Quote
jpeters
"Calcium is especially important for athletes because they are more likely to lose calcium, as well as other minerals, through perspiration."

[www.uofmhealth.org]

Could just be a balance of Ca+, perhaps the weeks I stayed in rhythm was all the Ca+ excess working its way out.

Beardman - Good you are getting rid of the excess calcium since anytime there is too much intracellular calcium... which is almost always the case with afibbers, there is also the finding that intracellular magnesium is low. The ratios of calcium-to-magnesium and potassium-to-sodium are established by fundamental biophysics... along with the calcium-to- sodium ratio that is often out of balance in those with hypertension.

Low magnesium causes many more health issues than arrhythmia... but like low magnesium causing muscle cramps, it definitely is attention getting.

Keep up the good work.

Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Beardman - Good you are getting rid of the excess calcium since anytime there is too much intracellular calcium... which is almost always the case with afibbers, there is also the finding that intracellular magnesium is low. The ratios of calcium-to-magnesium and potassium-to-sodium are established by fundamental biophysics... along with the calcium-to- sodium ratio that is often out of balance in those with hypertension.

Low magnesium causes many more health issues than arrhythmia... but like low magnesium causing muscle cramps, it definitely is attention getting.

Keep up the good work.

Jackie

I have noticed a fair amount of muscle cramps lately, but I attributed that to my increase in biking at the gym. I swapped out running because of my back/leg issues for biking.

I do take a magnesium supplement and I also cut way back on my supplements, so maybe something there is off too. I am now taking
Nattokinase (2,000 FU 1x day)
Taurine (1,000mg 3x day)
Hawthorne Extract (300mg 3x day)
Chelated Magnesium Bisglycinate (200mg 2x day)

Quote
beardman


I have noticed a fair amount of muscle cramps lately, but I attributed that to my increase in biking at the gym. I swapped out running because of my back/leg issues for biking.

"Without enough calcium you may experience muscle cramps."

Quote
jpeters



I have noticed a fair amount of muscle cramps lately, but I attributed that to my increase in biking at the gym. I swapped out running because of my back/leg issues for biking.

"Without enough calcium you may experience muscle cramps."

Yep, I read through that too. It really is such a fine balancing act.

Cal. is a no no on this board, I see a Holistic doc. twice a year, Dr. Brownstein. he has written a number of books one of which is "Overcoming Arthritis" he names some of the minerals that is needed and he includes Calcium, he says Calcium is essential to maintain the structural integrity of the body, it is a vital component of strong bones and teeth. Inadequate calcium intake is associated with osteoporosis. He says vit. D levels are necessary for proper absorption of calcium. His recommended dose is 1000-1500 mg. per day of calcium citrate. Of course he includes Magnesium, he says 400 mg. per day. I don't take any cal. supplements but I do eat cheese and it doesn't bother me. We have to do what works for us.

Liz

Consumption connection? Except in certain rare metabolic disturbances that raise blood calcium, calcification of joints and tendons is a local process that's not influenced by calcium intake.

Consumption connection? Many consumer Web sites and even some physicians suggest that people who have had kidney stones should lower their calcium intake to prevent a recurrence. They are incorrect. In fact, dietary calcium actually appears to reduce stone formation.

Consumption connection? Evidence is limited, but calcium intake doesn't appear to increase the risk of calcification in coronary arteries. In fact, a high level of calcium in the diet is usually thought to be beneficial to heart health, because it's associated with lower blood pressure and lower weight

Consumption connection? Calcium intake through diet and supplements is not associated with benign breast calcifications. Moreover, a 2009 study of more than 60,000 Swedish women found that greater calcium intake did not raise the risk of breast cancer.

[www.health.harvard.edu]

Quote
beardman

I have noticed a fair amount of muscle cramps lately, but I attributed that to my increase in biking at the gym. I swapped out running because of my back/leg issues for biking.

I do take a magnesium supplement and I also cut way back on my supplements, so maybe something there is off too. I am now taking
Nattokinase (2,000 FU 1x day)
Taurine (1,000mg 3x day)
Hawthorne Extract (300mg 3x day)
Chelated Magnesium Bisglycinate (200mg 2x day)

How about potassium? I had a hypokalemic paralysis event about 7 years ago and, in hindsight, it was preceded by several weeks of severe muscle pains.

Quote
wolfpack


I have noticed a fair amount of muscle cramps lately, but I attributed that to my increase in biking at the gym. I swapped out running because of my back/leg issues for biking.

I do take a magnesium supplement and I also cut way back on my supplements, so maybe something there is off too. I am now taking
Nattokinase (2,000 FU 1x day)
Taurine (1,000mg 3x day)
Hawthorne Extract (300mg 3x day)
Chelated Magnesium Bisglycinate (200mg 2x day)

How about potassium? I had a hypokalemic paralysis event about 7 years ago and, in hindsight, it was preceded by several weeks of severe muscle pains.

Whenever I take potassium it seems to get my heart racing. Generally when I’m out of rhythm I’m around 80bpm, but when I’ve taken potassium it jumps up to 120-130bpm.

Since this forum is about helping to stabilize and keep hearts calm, it makes sense to understand
the fundamental properties regarding the function of magnesium and calcium.

To recommend taking calcium supplements without knowing intracellular levels of each would be, to put it mildly,
“risky” since that can result in an increase of ectopy or outright arrhythmia – especially if one is already low or
borderline in intracellular magnesium levels..

Calcium is considered to be excitatory, stimulating and responsible for muscle contraction and cellular
electrical excitability. Whereas, magnesium is relaxing. Both are needed, but if the goal is to help
maintain freedom from heart cells firing too frequently or erratically, then it is logical (and smart) to keep
calcium intake at a minimal level; that is, just enough to meet the body’s requirements for the functionality
of electrical and muscle cells… but not enough to induce calcium overload.

The argument that calcium supplements are needed for bone health has long been clarified via the
science of bone morphology stating that calcium is only one mineral component of bone and that an
over-abundance of calcium intake does not insure stronger bones, but rather creates the risk of excess
calcium with overflow storage ending up as arterial calcifications, heart valve calcifications, bone spurs,
and the topic of this post…identifying triggers …that which contributes to the irritation/excitability of
heart cells translating to arrhythmia.

Calcium is typically much easier to acquire from food but magnesium is much more difficult for the quantities
needed to meet all the various requirements of magnesium in the body. .

Cardiologist, Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD, in his book, Death by Calcium, goes into considerable detail
listing the consequence of excess calcium in causing various health problems, most specifically, of
interest to our forum…. that “Excess Calcium Promotes Heart Disease”.. (p. 35) He notes that:
“The real problem is not a lack of calcium in the diet but rather a “relocation of calcium from bones
to other areas of the body”… which he explains and documents with study references.

In the classic book The Magnesium Factor (2003) by magnesium researcher,
the late Mildred S. Seelig, MD, MPH, Chapter 1 is titled “Magnesium: The Mineral that Combats
Heart Disease and Keeps Blood Vessels Healthy”… she correlates the increasing lack of magnesium
from 1900 to nearly 20 years ago when this book was published… showing the increase in heart-
related death and the declining average magnesium intake. One segment, titled:
“Magnesium and Calcium: A Delicate Balance” lists the properties and functions of calcium’s cellular
functions… including these points:

Quote:
Calcium exists mainly outside of cells, whereas almost all magnesium is found inside cels.
Calcium excites nerves, whereas magnesium calms them

Calcium(with potassium) is necessary for muscle contractions; whereas magnesium is
necessary for muscles to relax.

Calcium is necessary for the blood-clotting reaction, which is necessary for wound healing,
whereas magnesium keeps the blood flowing freely and prevents abnormal coagulation within
blood vessels, where clotting reactions could be dangerous.

Calcium is mostly found in bones and gives them much of their hardness, whereas magnesium
is found mainly in soft structure. Bone matrix, the soft structure within bone, contains protein
and magnesium and gives the bones some flexibility and resistance to brittleness.

The normal concentration of magnesium ion inside cells is easily 10,000 times that of intracellular
Calcium ions – under healthy conditions. But if the amount of magnesium in a cell falls, for any reason,
Calcium flows into the cell. With this abnormal situation, this happens:

1. Higher than normal calcium inside a cell excites a lot of reactions. It puts the cell into a hyperactive state. Heart and blood-vessel cells are especially excitable because they need to react rapidly during sudden stress situation.
As such they are truly vulnerable to deficits in magnesium that allow abnormal rises in calcium, with resulting hyperactivity. end quote
(pp 14 , 15).

While it’s not new news, how many of us who visited our family doctor or consulted a cardiologist when we first began having palpitations or arrhythmia, had the doctor say… “let’s test you for magnesium?” Chances are, virtually none… and even if we had, it would have been serum magnesium (from a blood draw) which wouldn’t have detected the low intracellular Mg status which was undoubtedly present. Observations back in the 80's....

1980 study - Serum magnesium in acute myocardial infarction. Relation to arrhythmias.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

1981 study Relation between potassium, magnesium and cardiac arrhythmias.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

1986 study Magnesium and potassium. Inter-relationships in cardiac disorders.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Just keep in mind that magnesium repletion is a very fluid status and you have to keep working at optimizing the IC stores continually.... it may take months to reach that level...and some people never do because of so many influencing factors that deplete Mg quickly.... stress being high on the list. Physical, endurance exercise is stress.

The other rule is… if you are low in IC Mg, adding potassium before Mg optimization will most always result in ectopics and/or arrhythmia.

Jackie

I’m still working on getting my mg levels up, currently at 600mg daily. I am wondering how much others are able to take. Also, are topical magnesium sprays any use to us afibbers?

My in and out of rhythm cycles seem to be extending. I was in rhythm for 6 days, but then out for 8. I was then in NSR for the last 8 days, but I think I pushed my workout too hard last night. I felt off last night although I was still registering NSR on my s Kardia. When I woke up this morning I was out and looking at my HR it happened at around 2:00, 2 hours after going to sleep. Fingers crossed on converting fast as that 8 day stint out of rhythm was a killer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2018 07:03PM by beardman.

Cardiologist, Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD, in his book, Death by Calcium

Another great read by Dr. Thomas Levy is "Hidden Epidemic". A personal story of his own root canal teeth he believed to be the direct cause for his heart attack and other health issues until removal.

Quote
hwkmn05
Cardiologist, Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD, in his book, Death by Calcium

Another great read by Dr. Thomas Levy is "Hidden Epidemic". A personal story of his own root canal teeth he believed to be the direct cause for his heart attack and other health issues until removal.

Thank you for the reply, I’ll check those out.

I’m about 1.5 years post diagnosis and finally decided to go on the flecainide and Metoprolol. I honestly just couldn’t take the mental hot anymore. No matter what I tried, it seemed I couldn’t stay in rhythm more that 50% of the time. The echocardiogram from 1.5 years ago to now show zero difference so it would appear that it was still not effecting me physically.

I have noticed though a significant weight gain since taking the meds. I was on 100mg flecainide 2x daily and 50mg metoprolol 2x daily. That wasn’t keeping it quite in check so they bumped the flecainide up to 150mg which has now been working for a few months.

I also moved across the country so now I have to find a new cardiologist. Any insight on the weight gain on these meds? I’ve picked up about 30lbs with no change in diet or exercise routine.

Thank you in advance