Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 08, 2018 09:14PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 88 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 08, 2018 09:29PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Dean
I have been eating natto food for 14yrs now and haven't had an afib event in this time yet my GP and EP still want me to go on blood thinners. I have a CHAD score of 1 and I take one tablet a day for blood pressure mostly because being an Aussie I drink a fair bit of beer and red wine. There is no way I am swapping the amazing benefits of natto food for blood thinners!!
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 08, 2018 10:18PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 01:27AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Dean
Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best?
With stroke and afib being the current topic on the forum (and bordering on the hysterical from some posters). I thought I would post this excellent article from Dr John Day, an EP and former President of the Heart Rhythm Society of the US who eats natto food daily.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 05:18AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 393 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 10:02AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Sam
jpeters - please moderate your responses. The comment about escape from reality is quite nasty.
Quote
As someone stated on another thread we are all different and what works for one probably won't work for another. The beer and whine remedy mentioned supprises me. Beer and whine (alcohol) are triggers for me.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 12:44PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 03:08PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 322 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 07:00PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 836 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 09, 2018 07:54PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Quote
ln108
A question occurs: I'm pretty clear, and remember reading on this forum some years ago, that natto (food) would be contraindicated for those of us on warfarin. What about for those on Eliquis and the other NOACs, which as I understand it don't depend on the vitamin K interaction?
In short, could someone on Eliquis benefit from eating natto?
I note a thread from 2015 on Eliquis and nattokinase, but maybe that's a different situation, or maybe things have changed since then?
Thanks!
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 12:22AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
GeorgeN
Lance, my understanding is that natto food increases vitamin K2. This may increase a needed warfarin dose (which acts on both K1 & K2, but K1 is what impacts clotting), but likely won't impact NOAC's, but I'd ask.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 02:25AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 88 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 02:51AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 615 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 10:19AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 322 |
Quote
GeorgeN
Lance, my understanding is that natto food increases vitamin K2. This may increase a needed warfarin dose (which acts on both K1 & K2, but K1 is what impacts clotting), but likely won't impact NOAC's, but I'd ask.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 11:49AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 12:03PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Quote
mwcf
Maybe I'm reaidng it wrong but it looks as though beer contains quite a bit of genistein! Fermented tofu looks best and contains way more than natto!!
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 02:43PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 04:25PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Quote
Jackie
I have not seen any recent data indicating that it would be a good idea to combine any form of natto with Eliquis or any of the other new anticoagulants. I know I'd certainly rather be on nattokinase than Eliquis.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 10, 2018 05:11PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
GeorgeN
I have not seen any recent data indicating that it would be a good idea to combine any form of natto with Eliquis or any of the other new anticoagulants. I know I'd certainly rather be on nattokinase than Eliquis.
I presume you mean from the side effects you experienced, not on the stroke prevention efficacy. I don't think anyone suggests that someone with a large stroke risk should not be on an anticoagulant med.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 11, 2018 08:21AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 11, 2018 05:32PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 819 |
Quote
colindo
So Natto food is pretty great stuff.... you just got to learn how to eat it... You have to get over the smell, which is not as bad as some would make you belive and find a preparation that suits you.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 11, 2018 09:55PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 39 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 11, 2018 10:10PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 11:21AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 12:00PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Jackie
Either the prolonged Afib or the ECV or both, caused a clot to form in the LAA and that showed up on the scan. However, it wasn’t flagged or mentioned to me so I didn’t know it until I received a copy of the scan results 6 weeks later.
Jackie
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 12:01PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 02:07PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 03:27PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
Jackie
jpeters... no.. the ECV came first, then the CT scan. Sorry if I didn't type the chronology clearly.
That's why we were all both pleased and obviously relieved to know that the NK was that effective.
I had thought the prolonged AF duration was the most likely clot cause but other readers suggested
it was more likely the ECV.
However, prior to my second ablation when I had so many ECV's because the flutter often didn't oft resolve on its own ...
I had an abundance of ECVs... all with NK and survived the clot issue. A couple times I had ECV's only week apart.
Then, when ablation was scheduled, I did go on Eliquis.
Jackie
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 03:47PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 04:28PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 12, 2018 10:08PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 4,221 |
Quote
Carey
Natto cures afib. Now I've heard everything.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 12:07AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 12:58AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 08:43AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 10:11AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Quote
colindo
No one is passing the notion that natto is a cure for Afib, but the science suggests it could help some of us with regards to blood thinners.
[undergroundhealthreporter.com]
I know your main focus is ablations which is not a cure for Afib but please keep an open mind to alternatives.
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 10:40AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 12:41PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 18,881 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 01:40PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 02:22PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Quote
Jackie
Here's one example from the original investigations published in 2006 that led to the use of nattokinase for this purpose:
[www.researchgate.net]
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 03:02PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 551 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 05:13PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 05:22PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 88 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 06:55PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,335 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 13, 2018 11:23PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1,748 |
Re: Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best? August 14, 2018 01:12AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 444 |
Quote
colindo
I've never disputed that natto has anticoagulant properties.
Very weak at best
How do you know this?
There are clinical trials due to finish next month so we will know more about the benefits nattokinase in this regard.