A Day in the Life of Afibber

I am an fibber who had an ablation and who for the most part is doing well however i have anxiety which when i have chest i call them bumps or movements my anxiety amps up.
Today i played golf and it was hot but in my chest area i seem to have skipped beats at least that is what i think. I felt fatique at times light headed however not into afib. I must tell you I take Flecainide 50mg morning and evening and toprol 25mg er in the evening. I also take 1 mg of klonopin half in morning and half in evening. This said i still create a world which i hate. I also have a EKG device Alive COR on my smartphone and use it constantly to see if i am in afib which i usually am not. I hate the way I feel in the chest area and it could even come from swinging the golf club. I am 72 in decent shape and still shoot in the 70s. I came home right after golf and sitting here in the chair and still have strange feeling in chest but not afib but enough to create anxiety. I drank water out on the course and i am drinking it here now. Most of the time this feeling just goes away it hasn't yet and i hate it. Does anyone else out in afib land feel the same way as I do. I sleep pretty good and tonight i will have a chicken pot pie with apple sauce for dinner I had eggs potatoes and bacon for breakfast with decaf coffee and ate light at lunch with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I would appreciate your replies and suggestions but this is my life as an fibber. Thanks a lot Steve

I thought having an ablation was an alternative to meds, but you're still on a lot of them.

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jpeters
I thought having an ablation was an alternative to meds, but you're still on a lot of them.

Sometimes ablations are performed in order for meds to work. I have my doubts as to how long or well meds will work in those ablated for that reason.

Steve, good to hear youre not letting afib keep you from living your life. Maybe a touch up ablation would be in order. Some need that second one to clean things up or modify. Im sure youll get some good info from posters here much more qualified than me on ablation or meds, neither of which I participate in. Im 8 yrs younger and cant break 80, good for you.

Steve:

I wouldn't get another Ablation, unless the AFIB itself is back, and looks like it is not going to get better.

Have you had any other Cardiac tests done recently? Like an Echo, Nuclear Cardiac Stress Test, or Angiogram?
Your Anxiety about your Chest may alleviated if the Tests showed nothing was really wrong. Or they would lead towards treatment if that is needed. As you probably know PAC's or skipped beats, unless severe, usually do not compromise Cardiac stability, and are usually benign.

When did you have your ablation? Are you on the meds only beause it has been a short period of time since your ablation?

Anxiety/stress are definiatly triggers for some folks for sure. For me anxiety, stress and even focusing on my heart could cause an eppisode. If you could find some way to address your axiety or focus that may help.

Hi Steve - you and I have "talked" a lot about this issue and I'm sorry to read your post and current status.

What are you taking in the way of daily supplements to replenish your electrolytes... including magnesium, potassium and sodium? It's been very warm and the potential for loss is great. Glad you are hydrating but most likely you need the extra minerals as well. Wouldn't hurt to try ... And... with the anxiety factor always looming in the background, sometimes we create our own dilemma.... try not to be constantly checking with the AliveCor... It's well known that being constantly in 'fearful anticipation' is very detrimental overall because that, itself, brings on a lot of stress. You'll know if you are in AF soon enough... and what would you do if you were? Have you considered consulting for a second ablation? Before your first encounter with AFib, were you always stressed and anxious or did it come when AF entered your life?

You probably won't want to do this since golf is your major pleasure, but why not take a week or two off and do something different? We’ve talked about the ‘torquing’ repetitive stress impact on the muscles involved with a golf swing and how that might be causing irritation in close proximity to your heart. It’s possible that a form of body work could manipulate and ease those insertion points so they are less likely to become ‘stressed or irritated.’ Once treated, it would be productive to have regular treatments.

Try to expand your diet to include a lot of fresh veggies in salads and include your protein there - even add in hard boiled eggs if you need more protein.. but you definitely need leafy greens and other bright colored veggies.. tomatoes, carrots, cukes, zucchini, etc... Your diet needs to provide the essentials and if it doesn't then you need to supplement.

Again, sorry you are still battling this anxiety beast.
Best to you,
Jackie

Jackie,

I wonder if L-Theanine would help Steve

Colin

Colin - I haven't researched to see if there would be any contraindication with the theanine and the Klonopin... I would want to know for sure. Jackie

I have never thought about the golf swing impacting afib, and though any subluxation might effect it, golf never effected me that way. Golf can be stressful if its always competitive, but for me its good exercise and stress free. If that were the case, the maximum torque that Pro golfers produce would have them all lining up for ablations and that just aint the case. The heat I will agree with along with dehydrating. Maybe cut back on the "Swing Lube" during golf.

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jpeters
I thought having an ablation was an alternative to meds, but you're still on a lot of them.

An ablation that requires anti-arrhythmic drugs is a failed ablation. I know, I’m on the verge of one myself.

On the torquing issue with repetitive stress from golf swing.... this is not uncommon... witness the many professional golfers having back surgery. We don't hear of the pros having Afib issues, but it doesn't mean that the torquing actions on the spine would not contribute to irritation of the vagus nerve which can also impact the heart. A lot probably depends on age and how long that 'swing stress' has been in place. Most often, the issue is pain rather than afib, but the fact that the vagus is involved with the torque of the golf swing makes a very logical connection.
Look at the golfer's spine in this photo. [wtop.com]

Here's one clip of many re: vagus nerve irritation and symptoms that result including heart palpitations:

Because the vagus nerve supplies motor parasympathetic fibers to every organ from the neck down to the second segment of the transverse colon (except the adrenal glands), its effect can be far reaching. Stress can raise the body's level of epinephrine and norepinephrine, which stimulates the sympathetic nervous system to over-ride the parasympathetic nervous system, of which the vagus nerve is the main component. When the vagus nerve is affected in this way, people can experience palpitations, tachycardia, or premature ventricular contractions (PVCs). These are extra, abnormal heartbeats that begin in one of the heart's two ventricles. Patients describe vagus nerve induced palpitations as a thud, a fluttery sensation, or a skipped beat. The sensation varies depending on the point during the heart's normal rhythm that the vagus nerve fires. In many cases, this becomes a vicious cycle where the anxiety caused by the missed heartbeat further exacerbates the fight between the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system, leading to more palpitations.

And multiple diagrams on the path of the vagus and the consequences of any interference or impingement that cause vagal irritation. [www.pinterest.com]

Another clip relating to Heart Rate Variability and over-exercise... and is often referenced in repetitive stress injury involving the spine...which would be 'classic' for a golf-swing... (I was a golfer and I can certainly see that connection).

Do You Have a Healthy HRV?

A healthy HRV will produce a larger gap in time between beats and a higher HRV number. An individual who is over-training in athletics or not recovering well will have low HRV and consequently decreased or plateaued performance. The low HRV reflects higher levels of oxidative stress and insufficient recovery from the activity or previous day. Non-athletes who face illness or injuries have also been shown have low or diminished HRV. The diminished HRV may be an internal sense that the heart rate is elevated, feeling stressed, disturbed sleep, unable to wind-down, moody, digestive upset, short shallow breathing, fatigued, and possibly feeling a “kink in the neck or upper mid-back”.

Why Heart Rate Variability Matters to You

The disorders associated with poor HRV are numerous. Young and old alike are affected by this variable. Knowing if your HRV is struggling helps provide information about more than just observation. There are several tools that affect HRV that help you put you back in the driver’s seat of your body.
[www.wellnessresources.com]

A successful ablation 11.5 years ago. No afib since, no meds of any kind, 73 years old and play golf twice a week year round (except when on vacation or bad weather). My GHIN index ranges from 16 to 20 and hit my driver 220.

I played golf pre ablation and found no correlation between episodes and golf. I played maybe 3-4 x a month and was in Dallas at the time. I played year round and also in the summer when highs were in the 100's, plus I was walking with a push cart. I played in the early morning and drank plenty of liquids.

i had my ablation in 2008 and really it has been fairly successful i don't think it is a total cure but for some controls afib. I was put on Toprol 25er right after the ablation and
most of my doctors patients had the same treatment. About 2 years after ablation i got bad case of Bronchitis and had two episodes of afib. At the time i was using PIP or pill in pocket if i had an episode. I used it during those breakthroughs and within 30 mins was back into normal rhythm. Its strange i could go out and not know why and not go out again for 3 years. I took a newer antibiotic about 3 years ago and within 2 hours went into afib. Took the pill in pocket and went back into rhythm within 30 minutes. and have not had another episode for 3 years. Jackie i am at times my own worst enemy as many of us in afib land are. I worry about things and anxiety sets in. My mother when she was living would always say to me Steve would you please stop worrying. I am better but still there is some there. I played golf again today(74) played well and no issues however i do have stomach issues at this time. I have taken heart tests stress echo and others and they are all good. I started on the 50 MG OF FLECainide when i had the bronchitis and he didn't like me taking the pill in the pocket constantly PIP was at the time 3 100 flecanide tablets and one 25 mg toprol tartrate tablet. So many of you have been so kind in expressing there thoughts and i appreciate it and Jackie has always been a calming voice to all of us.

Ken - Great to see you are still doing well and enjoying the game.

The avid golfers that I know are now retired and in their mid 70's and play 18 at least 5 days a week all season. While I don't know any, either, that have Afib... the RSI factor (repetitive stress injury) is always a potential as I've heard it mentioned in discussions on managing physical defects in the aging population.

People who have done the same sport...such as golfing since teenagers ... would be an obvious consideration when looking at a potential connection 60+ years later.

Long may you continue to enjoy the game.

Jackie

Hi Steve... You said: Jackie i am at times my own worst enemy as many of us in afib land are. I worry about things and anxiety sets in. My mother when she was living would always say to me Steve would you please stop worrying. I am better but still there is some there. I played golf again today(74) played well and no issues however i do have stomach issues at this time.

Great score, as usual!
Over the past 16 years since joining the forum, I've talked with many afibbers who have anxiety issues that are magnified by the Afib experience. It can be a big challenge to manage the anxiety so that it doesn't become a contributor but many things can help reduce the symptoms. It should be comforting and reassuring to you that all your heart tests were good.

I've sent you an email for more details about your stomach issues.

Best to you,
Jackie

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hwkmn05
I have never thought about the golf swing impacting afib, and though any subluxation might effect it, golf never effected me that way. Golf can be stressful if its always competitive, but for me its good exercise and stress free. If that were the case, the maximum torque that Pro golfers produce would have them all lining up for ablations and that just aint the case. The heat I will agree with along with dehydrating. Maybe cut back on the "Swing Lube" during golf.

Interestingly my first awareness of atrial fibrillation was always during of just after playing golf. In fact, an ambulance ride to the hospital after I "blacked out" during a tournament resulted of my initial diagnosis. At first I thought it was related to the physicality of the swing or the exercise involved......but never experienced a problem during my weekly workouts at the gym.

Over time my arrhythmia got more frequent and went from "pill in the pcoket" to daily medication. Long story short......hated the side affects and cost of the medication so after guidance from this site met with Natale to discus an ablation. After much consideration had an ablation in March 2011 and have been problem-free since.


Steve
Spring, Tx

Hi Ken
Do you mind my asking who did your ablation?

Thank you.
Vickie

Dr. Kevin Wheelan.
Heart Place, Baylor Hospital
Dallas, Tx
214 841-2000

He was good 11.5 years ago, so I would imagine he is better now. I never experienced a "blanking period" and took no meds after the ablation except for Coumadin for two weeks.

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Ken
He was good 11.5 years ago, so I would imagine he is better now. I never experienced a "blanking period" and took no meds after the ablation except for Coumadin for two weeks.

Nice, but I can virtually guarantee he doesn't follow that protocol anymore. Only two weeks on an anticoagulant post-ablation would be considered malpractice these days.

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Carey

Nice, but I can virtually guarantee he doesn't follow that protocol anymore. Only two weeks on an anticoagulant post-ablation would be considered malpractice these days.

I got “taken to the woodshed” for quitting Eliquis 28 days post ablation. Now that I know more, I wouldn’t do that again.

Carey,

I checked and it was one month on Coumadin, not two weeks .

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Ken
Carey,

I checked and it was one month on Coumadin, not two weeks .

That's been bumped up. The current standard of care calls for at least two months.