Magnesium and "the runs"

Hello again!

I've been taking *one* magnesium tablet daily, with dinner, of Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium, 100% Chelated with TRAACS. I figured I'd build up slowly to taking two tablets.

The label's suggested adult use is to take two tablets--two tablets have 200 mg of Magnesium (elemental) from 2,000 mg magnesium glycinate lysine chelate; taking one tablet gives me half of that.

Sometimes I forget to take my magnesium.

When I take the one tablet, I will often have "the runs" within a few hours or less.
On the days when I forget to take it, everything is fine and normal.

Am I doing something wrong??
Thanks!
Sue

I no longer use magnesium daily and only when Im feeling a bit out of sorts at bedtime. Even in small amounts it has a laxative effect. I have mixed feelings about it now. I believe a few times it has actually been a detriment , causing ectopic beats and even afib by eliminating good minerals prematurely. I have no data to back this up and its just my theory, but I havent taken in over a year now and dont miss it.

As I'd still ectopics but no more afib, I've gradually reduced the meds (flecainide and bisoprolol) and stopped taking dabigatran (CHADS score = 0).
My EP was ok for this, but when I talked him about the supplements like Mg or K I was taking at the same time, he instantaneously said they had nothing to do with the fact l was afib free...

As I don't know what's efficient or not for me, I've planned testing one thing at a time. Now l'm just taking Mg bisglycinate, gradually increasing the dose.
For now, I've still lots of ectopics, but I've not yet taken more than 300mg of Mg element/day.

Everyone's tolerance is different. If what you're taking causes diarrhea then it's doing you more harm than good. Try switching to a different form of magnesium, take it with a meal, and increase fiber in your diet.

Hi Sue - Sorry you are having those problems with the magnesium. Definitely diarrhea isn't good.

It could be that you have a type of intestinal absorption site blockage that prevents the magnesium from getting out of the small intestine and into the blood stream. Short of having a GI analysis for SIBO and such, it would be difficult to know why you aren't absorbing the magnesium.. unless, of course, you are already optimized from dietary magnesium intake and you don't need more.

You can consider the topical magnesium gels or easiest and more economical... use Epsom Salts baths or foot soaks which typically do not cause bowel tolerance issues.

Jackie

Jackie, Epsom baths dont come without their own warnings. I m not a fan of anything such as oils and salts were the dosages cant be controlled. They can cause an unexpected drop in BP also.

hwkmn05... Well. actually, you can control how much magnesium sulfate you add to a bath or foot soak and you can also control how much time you spend soaking. On the topical oils or "gels" - the one I use gives dosing as....

Supplies approximately 150 mg elemental magnesium = ¼ teaspoon

I use it mainly for occasional sore muscles... about half a teaspoon... topically on the tender spot and in about
20 minutes, the muscle tightness relaxes and the pain is typically gone. It feels slightly tacky on the skin until it dries completely and the instructions indicate there is no need to wash off, but I usually wait for 30-40 minutes and then rinse to eliminate the sticky feeling.

However, the literature says for systemic repletion....

Generally speaking, MagneGel ™
should be used with higher frequency
during the first 3-4 months in order to
ensure proper restoration of cellular
magnesium levels. It is advisable to begin
the first few days of application with modest
use (once or twice a day), and gradually
work up to larger amounts (three to four
times a day).

After this initial period of restoration, you
may choose to use MagneGel™ just a
few times per week or stay at the higher
dose frequency. It all depends on the
individual, as everyone responds differently
and with different needs.

MagnaGel is made from the pure magnesium chloride sourced from the
ancient Zechstein seabed in Europe.

Jackie

Thanks everyone, for the input! Normally, I don't mind "renting" food b/ c to my way of thinking, it means fewer calories (please, don't anyone enlighten me that I'm wrong about that! LOL)

I think MagnaGel or something like that is in my future.

I may try half a tab of the magnesium I have to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks again,
Sue

That's a bummer. I use thia particular mag myself. Fortunately without issues to this point.
However , I have had this issue in the past. What I did then was start backing off on the amount I used until those symptoms went away.

As usual, the skeptic must post:

From Web/MD: About Epsom salt baths

How Does It Work?

In water, it breaks down into magnesium and sulfate. The theory is that when you soak in an Epsom salt bath, these get into your body through your skin. That hasn't been proven, but just soaking in warm water can help relax muscles and loosen stiff joints.

While there are plenty of folk remedy claims, there aren't a lot of studies to back them up. Taking this type of bath probably won't hurt you, but if you have health concerns, check with your doctor first.

From Livestrong:

Epsom salt, a magnesium sulfate compound, is a popular home remedy most commonly used as a foot soak. Taken orally or rectally as an enema, it is also used as a treatment for constipation. While some of the magnesium from these salts can be absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract, there is a lack of peer-reviewed research that supports a significant or therapeutic level of magnesium absorption from the skin. If you plan to use Epsom salt for the treatment of constipation, discuss the use with your doctor and follow package directions.


After a bit of searching, it seems that there are very few studies supporting magnesium absorption through the skin. The one below showed that 16 of 19 subjects showed an increase in magnesium. On the other hand, Epsom salt baths have been around for a very long time and promoted extensively, but I wonder why there isn't more scientific research supporting the claims.

[www.seasalt.com]

That's a bummer. I use thia particular mag myself. Fortunately without issues to this point.
However , I have had this issue in the past. What I did then was start backing off on the amount I used until those symptoms went away.

Dear Sue,

Sorry to hear of your magnesium blues. I have similar issues, I think because of SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth). I can hardly take any oral magnesium. I have managed to maintain decent RBC magnesium blood test levels using this product: Swanson Ultra Magnesium Oil. I rub it on in the morning after showering and at night before bed.

I don't know if it's as effective as the MagnaGel recommended by Jackie.I might try that as well.

All best wishes,

--Lance

Quote
Ken
I wonder why there isn't more scientific research supporting the claims.

Who is incentivized to fund the research? Mag sulfate and mag chloride are commodities. The Epsom Salt Council funded the study you linked.

When people have told me they have severe cramps in their leg, I've suggested they make a supersaturated solution of epsom salts and water and apply it topically as an acute remedy. Then I suggest they start taking more oral magnesium as a long term solution. The feedback is this works well and quickly, indicating that something in the MgSO4 is getting into the body. It has also worked well with a MgCl solution (magnesium oil).

I've posted on topical magnesium before <[www.afibbers.org]

In one link, <[www.enzymestuff.com] it is noted that people on the spectrum tend to have an issue with a detoxification pathway and that sulfate will aid this. At least in their case report experience, topical application of epsom salt appears to help this issue. One could assume that if the sulfate is being absorbed, the magnesium is, too.

Hi Lance - For you, Lance, the transdermal delivery is certainly worth trying.... given the SIBO.

The magnesium "oil" products are all similar in how they work. The comments typically presented making the case for the purity of these oils indicates you should try to use the salts harvested from the ancient seabeds which 'claim' to be free of toxic pollutants. I've not delved into checking whether the salts are actually checked for pollutants when brought into the manufacturing facility...which would seem reasonable...but who knows?

The benefit of the transdermal delivery for magnesium chloride or magnesium sulfate is that it typically works very well and quickly. I'd start out with what's economical and available.... and if needed, upgrade from there.

Check out the details here at Dr. Mark Sircus' website .... [www.ancient-minerals.com]

Let us know if you find improvement in tolerance and Mg levels with this approach.... could be very useful for others, too.

Jackie

For those on this thread mentioning GI issues and Lance with SIBO, this post from 2012 may offer some helpful tips on where to start looking.

Nutrient Absorption, GI Interference, SIBO, Biofilm & Atrial Fibrillation
February 27, 2012

[www.afibbers.org]-

Jackie

Thanks everyone for the extra info and links!!!!! It's much appreciated!
Sue

Quote
Pompon
As I'd still ectopics but no more afib, I've gradually reduced the meds (flecainide and bisoprolol) and stopped taking dabigatran (CHADS score = 0).
My EP was ok for this, but when I talked him about the supplements like Mg or K I was taking at the same time, he instantaneously said they had nothing to do with the fact l was afib free...

As I don't know what's efficient or not for me, I've planned testing one thing at a time. Now l'm just taking Mg bisglycinate, gradually increasing the dose.
For now, I've still lots of ectopics, but I've not yet taken more than 300mg of Mg element/day.

Apparently, Mg makes things worse.
The more I take, the more I have ectopics (but nothing wrong with my bowels)...

Just remember the general basics for magnesium's to be effective.

Magnesium being relaxing; calcium being excitatory to heart cells.
When you have enough magnesium inside the cells. (intracellular or IC), note: the challenge is to get it inside... just because you take it, doesn't guarantee automatically it will easily access inside the cells. If the cell receptors are damaged, then it doesn't get in. The bowel tolerance signal with low dosing can indicate the receptor damage as usually it takes fairly high doses of Mg before the bowel issue.... but, as we know, we are all different in response, etc.

Calcium tends to dominate unless IC magnesium is optimized.

Same is true with potassium and sodium.... sodium tends to dominate intracellularly.

So... if enough magnesium does get inside the heart cells and displaces the calcium to a balancing point, the heart can start to calm down. Here's where potassium comes in. Potassium helps lengthen the time between heartbeats... or the refractory period. If you don't have enough IC potassium, then the ectopics/extra beats, etc.. continue.

But remember... the rule is first the magnesium.

Again.. you have to assess your intake of sodium... ie, food sources and do a diary to calculate your average daily estimated intake of sodium... and also for potassium.

Caveat: Supplement with magnesium and potassium only if you have healthy kidney function... is always the warning to be sure you don't cause a problem.

Reference the science for the Sodium/Potassium pump mechanism that is vitally important for afibbers and those with hypertension... CR 72 Potassium/Sodium Ratio in Atrial Fibrillation at this link
[www.afibbers.org]

Jackie

Quote
SueChef
Thanks everyone, for the input! Normally, I don't mind "renting" food b/ c to my way of thinking, it means fewer calories (please, don't anyone enlighten me that I'm wrong about that! LOL)

Okay, but ultimately the truth never hurts! .....Enemas, etc, do NOT mean fewer calories, since the food is already past that stage in the digestive system. Besides, they can be harmful.