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6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link

Posted by JakeL 
6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 01, 2018 10:38PM
The dementia risk has been discussed on the Affibers Forum many times. But this article connected the dots for me.

This information comes from Dr John Day's website. If you have dementia in your family and currently have AFIB, you may have reason for concern. Below is the link to the article:

6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link

Two references that stood out to me are shown below, one at the beginning of the article and one at the end; bold emphasis is mine:

"In the final analysis, our study showed that atrial fibrillation roughly doubles the risk of Alzheimer’s as well as all other forms of dementia."

"For those who are unable to reverse their atrial fibrillation with lifestyle changes, in 2011 we published a follow-up study of 37,908 people showing that if you could eliminate atrial fibrillation with an ablation, then the increased dementia risk was completely gone. Indeed, we have learned that the two key factors to preventing dementia are to maintain sinus rhythm and optimize your lifestyle."

Sounds like some of us may have another reason (to reduce dementia risk) to have an ablation.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 12:02AM
My Daddy is almost 86 years young and has been in permanent AFIB for many years. His mind is as sharp as a normal 50 year old man. He is to high risk with other health issues to consider a Ablation. He was around 78 when he went into permanent AFIB.
I try not to let everything that is written on the Internet control my life.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 11:24AM
Quote
smackman
I try not to let everything that is written on the Internet control my life.

Plenty of people smoke, drink excessively, eat lousy diets, get no exercise and nevertheless live long lives. But that's a pretty bad reason to do those things. Fact is it usually results in a shorter, sicker life. Similarly, knowing that afib may lead to dementia is a pretty good reason to do something about it rather than just living with it. Trust me, death is far better than dementia.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 11:37AM
FWIW my take is that the link between AF and dementia is obstructive sleep apnoea - as in the OSA precipitates both AF and dementia. Hence the ‘link’ between AF and dementia. I’m further figuring that AF that’s well-controlled rate-wise and/or asymtomatic will not in the absence of OSA drastically increase the likelihood of dementia.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 12:10PM
I’m in the process of organizing a post on why it’s important to make sure we have optimally-functional mitochondria…
…not only for Afibers but for overall general health, functionality and longevity.

Alzheimers/dementia is another reason why healthy mitochondrial function is crucial.

Here’s one of many studies

Mitochondrial dysfunction is a trigger of Alzheimer's disease pathophysiology
Abstract
Mitochondria are uniquely poised to play a pivotal role in neuronal cell survival or death because they are regulators of both energy metabolism and cell death pathways. Extensive literature exists supporting a role for mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease. This review discusses evidence indicating that mitochondrial dysfunction has an early and preponderant role in Alzheimer's disease.

Continue: [www.sciencedirect.com]
[doi.org]

Jackie
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 05:20PM
Quote
mwcf
FWIW my take is that the link between AF and dementia is obstructive sleep apnoea - as in the OSA precipitates both AF and dementia. Hence the ‘link’ between AF and dementia. I’m further figuring that AF that’s well-controlled rate-wise and/or asymtomatic will not in the absence of OSA drastically increase the likelihood of dementia.

Interesting theory but my mother, who died of Alzheimer's two years ago, had been tested for OSA and was negative. She had afib for the last 20 years of her life with good rate control the whole time. I think the first possible cause he discusses in the article is much more likely. Rate control doesn't eliminate the micro clots that afib produces; only rhythm control does that.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 08:04PM
Natto (or Nattokinase) should take care of the clots without blood bleed, I bet they haven't tested for that.
see
[undergroundhealthreporter.com]
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 08:21PM
What is the cut-off age for an ablation?
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 09:08PM
In one of Day's papers that he cites: <[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] "The presence of AF increased hs-CRP across the CHADS2 score strata is supportive of the concept that AF is an inflammatory process and may convey independent risk." doesn't correlate with my personal experience. Even during the midst of my 2.5 month episode, my hsCRP was <1. In the last 3 years, it has ranged from 0.3-0.5 mg/dL. Of course I was not in afib most of that time. I think the comorbidities that cause the inflammation leading to the higher hsCRP lead to the afib and the afibbers probably have worse cases of these (in general) than the non-afibbers. In the full copy of the paper they state, ". For example, structural heart disease is the strongest risk factor for AF, and the arrhythmia affects an estimated 10–30% patients who have heart failure."

In general, I think Dr. Day is on track and afibbers would be well advised to minimize or reverse any comorbidities they have. I got this message in 2005 or 2006 when Hans Larsen (founder of this site) commented on a paper from the Mayo Clinic on a 30 year study of afibbers in Olmstead County, MN where their HQ is located. Bottom like is that paroxysmal afibbers were initially healthier than the controls, but they got these comorbidities as they aged. This prompted me to get a glucometer in 2006 and change my diet so my serum glucose would not spike after meals. I also reduced my weight to what I was in grade 10. I'm convinced that hyperinsulinemia is at the root of many of these comorbidities. In many cases, these comorbidities lead to higher CHADS2 scores and more inflammation.

The younger afibbers who came to it via a lot of exercise are much less likely to have these comorbidities.

It is also why I chew flec whenever I get an episode to make it act as fast as possible and minimize time out of rhythm.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 09:18PM
I have been looking at this for some time since I first read about the association between AF and brain function, worrying that my bouts of AF will slowly send me into Dementia.

As we "age" we tend to slow down physically, but I think it's important not to let age control who and what we are by aggressively seeking ways to stay fit in mind and body.

I have many friends who shake their heads and tell me to accept what I have is all age related and to enjoy the life I have, which is annoying to say the least.

I have been reading up in Mitochondrial dysfunction over the last few months and came across this article.

[www.thebestbrainpossible.com]

Looking forward to reading your post on subject Jackie,

Carey, oh so true, Dementia, what a nightmare that would be. Greatest fears of being in AF for me stroke and/ or dementia!

PS: can anyone enlighten me about the Lesions showing up on brain scans after ablation...I'm considering one if all settles with my heath.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 10:41PM
I found this video, very interesting, about Cardiac Arrhythmias, the missed cause

[www.youtube.com]

Dr. John Bergman says if there is an inbalance in the automatic nervous system there is problems. Many on this site are vagal/parasympathetic find that exercise can bring about NSR.

Liz
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 02, 2018 11:49PM
Quote
Carey

I try not to let everything that is written on the Internet control my life.

Plenty of people smoke, drink excessively, eat lousy diets, get no exercise and nevertheless live long lives. But that's a pretty bad reason to do those things. Fact is it usually results in a shorter, sicker life. Similarly, knowing that afib may lead to dementia is a pretty good reason to do something about it rather than just living with it. Trust me, death is far better than dementia.

THE Key is MAY LEAD to Dementia. Another possible theory. If I lived my Life on MAY LEAD theories, It would be hard to live a life at all. It is sorta like Statins being bad for you. You can read what you want. My Cardiologist, GP AND Internal Medicine specialist do not believe statins have any big time bad side effects plus many online agree with them. That’s another subject.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 12:19AM
Quote
Catherine
What is the cut-off age for an ablation?

There isn't one. It depends on the individual and their health particulars.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 12:27AM
Quote
colindo
Natto (or Nattokinase) should take care of the clots without blood bleed, I bet they haven't tested for that.

Maybe, maybe not. The micro clots happen even in the presence of warfarin and NOACs. I don't see any reason to think natto would be any more effective at preventing them, and it's very unlikely anyone's ever going to pay for a study to find out.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 03:11AM
What George says.

From the (mostly excellent) Day piece:

“Atrial fibrillation doesn’t usually occur in isolation. Generally, the same people with atrial fibrillation are also the same people suffering from obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, sleep apnea, etc. As all of these conditions also increase the risk of dementia, it is hard to know the exact atrial fibrillation dementia link.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 11:18AM
Quote
JoyWin

PS: can anyone enlighten me about the Lesions showing up on brain scans after ablation...I'm considering one if all settles with my heath.

More risk of lesions prior to ablation.

[a-fib.com]
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 01:18PM
I believe this is the issue Joy is asking about. Small emboli have been observed in the brain following left atrial ablations. Although they're asymptomatic and they do resolve over time, it's unknown what long-term effects they could have. So far they appear benign.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 05:25PM
Wouldn't Natto dissolve the micro clot anyway. Natto removes calcium from the arteries and puts it in your bones, thus removing the source I suggest of the clot in the first place. .
Quote
Carey

Natto (or Nattokinase) should take care of the clots without blood bleed, I bet they haven't tested for that.

Maybe, maybe not. The micro clots happen even in the presence of warfarin and NOACs. I don't see any reason to think natto would be any more effective at preventing them, and it's very unlikely anyone's ever going to pay for a study to find out.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 06:03PM
Quote
colindo
Wouldn't Natto dissolve the micro clot anyway. Natto removes calcium from the arteries and puts it in your bones, thus removing the source I suggest of the clot in the first place. .

The source of the micro clots during an ablation is the procedure itself. They puncture the septum with a large needle, which obviously has the potential to create clots, they make RF burns, which is another potential source of clots, and the catheters themselves are foreign bodies and therefore have the potential to create clots. Despite the fact that you're given heparin prior to the septal puncture in addition to the warfarin or NOAC that was given before the procedure, these micro clots still happen. It's unrealistic to think natto is going to do what warfarin, heparin and NOACs can't.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 07:42PM
Quote
Carey
Wouldn't Natto dissolve the micro clot anyway. Natto removes calcium from the arteries and puts it in your bones, thus removing the source I suggest of the clot in the first place. .

The source of the micro clots during an ablation is the procedure itself. They puncture the septum with a large needle, which obviously has the potential to create clots, they make RF burns, which is another potential source of clots, and the catheters themselves are foreign bodies and therefore have the potential to create clots. Despite the fact that you're given heparin prior to the septal puncture in addition to the warfarin or NOAC that was given before the procedure, these micro clots still happen. It's unrealistic to think natto is going to do what warfarin, heparin and NOACs can't.
I don't think its unrealistic to think that natto does a better job than warfarin and the others. BTW I thought we were refering to Dr John Days "6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link" micro clots when having an afib event, not an ablation.
You may get a better understanding if you read this [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2018 07:43PM by colindo.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 03, 2018 08:02PM
Quote
Elizabeth
I found this video, very interesting, about Cardiac Arrhythmias, the missed cause

[www.youtube.com]

Dr. John Bergman says if there is an inbalance in the automatic nervous system there is problems. Many on this site are vagal/parasympathetic find that exercise can bring about NSR.

Liz

Just read a ton about this last week. Also saw the video and many more describing how to keep the parasympathetic dominant. Definetly worth putting some time into.
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 04, 2018 02:08AM
Quote
Billyjeans

Just read a ton about this last week. Also saw the video and many more describing how to keep the parasympathetic dominant. Definetly worth putting some time into.

[afib.newlifeoutlook.com]

"As you can see, no one can come right out and say chiropractic will help atrial fibrillation. However, taking all this information in together, it suggests that chiropractic could be worth a try."

??
Re: 6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link
June 04, 2018 10:59AM
Quote
colindo
BTW I thought we were refering to Dr John Days "6 Reasons Why There is an Atrial Fibrillation Dementia Link" micro clots when having an afib event, not an ablation.

We were, but Joywin raised a second question regarding post-ablation micro emboli. I was responding to that question.
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