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A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?

Posted by kong2018 
A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
May 31, 2018 04:16AM
In the last episode, I tried exercising to convert. So I ran really hard and heart rate shot up to 228. Kind of scary but I didn't feel anything, no dizzy, no tiredness, no short of breath but just feeling the heart bouncing around. Then I rested for a few minutes and did a slower running which converted me in about one minute. The question is, could the fast heart rate brought up by hard exercising turn into V-fib?
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
May 31, 2018 04:28AM
Whilst I guess nothing is impossible, it's not something I've ever read about on this or any other forum in the last 20 years.

If in AF at say 100 ventricular response rate (VVR) and one goes for it with exercise then I am not surprised your VVR shoots up into the 200 and a bit above range. As for converting by exercise in general, I'm guessing George N, wolfpack and others could contribute here far more ably than I.
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
May 31, 2018 08:12AM
Quote
kong2018
The question is, could the fast heart rate brought up by hard exercising turn into V-fib?

In the absence of structural heart disease, no.
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
May 31, 2018 09:04AM
No. AF to VF requires an accessory pathway around the AV node, such as in Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome. Those things are congenital. You're born with them or you're not. It isn't something that can just spontaneously happen.

Exercise conversion can and does work, but it is a bit hit-and-miss. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't work sometimes. I've had plenty of times where it didn't. I can recall once where I took the wife and kids on a bike ride to try for an afternoon conversion. I sped up the hills hard as I could and ran the flats as fast as I could. When we got back to the car, my wife, who was catching up, said something like "good that you're back in rhythm", and I said "No, still out". Man was she pissed. smiling smiley

So you might find even if exercise doesn't convert the episode, it can make it more "compliant" in terms of the ventricular rate and therefore much more tolerable.
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
May 31, 2018 09:09AM
Early on in my afib career, exercise conversions worked for me.

First time, I'd put on an old Polar monitor and went out to see what my rate would do in exercise. I found my rate was 145 on fast walking, where in NSR it would be much less than 100 in NSR at the same effort. I was doing this in the city and had to sprint to avoid a car. My monitor went to 230, then NSR. That evening, I called my GP, a friend, and asked him if I'd done something stupid. He said no, it was fine. I would subsequently use exercise to convert, till it didn't work several months later.

Later in my 14 year "career," if I feel my heart "going off the rails" I could many times do even a mild change in position and convert or ward off an episode very soon after it started.

George
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
June 01, 2018 01:32AM
Thanks everyone that gave your information in above. Really appreciate all your answers! Seems like I can try exercising without worrying too much should it happen again. You guys are like lighthouses that guiding the newbies in the dark. Awesome!

Thank you!
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
June 02, 2018 07:18PM
It's been a few years since I visited this site. I was diagnosed with a-fib back in 2007 episodes occurring every week or two . I learned on this board that my A-Fib fit the vagal pattern, triggered by lying on the left side, Gerd,& with most of the episodes occurring at night. I discovered by accident that my episodes would convert to sinus with exercise pretty well every time sometimes after a minute or two jogging or sometimes it took a while longer. Mowing the lawn, stacking wood or cycling usually worked as well but jogging works best. In 2011 the episodes became more frequent but still converted quickly almost every time with exercise and I started taking Flecainide 50 mg twice a day, and have maintained this dosage since.
I rarely get A-fib at night now, most episodes are triggered by oesophageal irritation from chronic Gerd or excess stomach gas that results in belching . Episodes still average about once a week or so but I can go a month without one depending on if my stomach remains calm or not.
Early on back in 2008 or so when the Cardiologist put me on a 24 hour Holter monitor to see what was going on , I got a particularly stubborn episode that night
I had purchased a tread mill specifically for the purpose of converting from A-Fib , as the winters are cold here and I had spent too many nights running down the freezing road at 3 am in the morning to convert a night time episode .The tread mill is real convenient for this purpose especially in bad weather. I had to exercise for about half an hour to
clear it that time and to run quite fast for several minutes . The holter trace was quite messy because of the bouncing up and down but it showed a ventricular rate of 220 or so prior to conversion. Usually conversion is much easier than this , but I have been doing this now for over 10 years . So far so good, I also get other ectopics which can be frequent at times but they also are reasonably well controlled by magnesium supplements potassium rich foods and the flecainide I am 67 , and will avoid the ablation option
unless the A-Fib becomes more bothersome .
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
June 05, 2018 12:07PM
Quote
Ian G


In 2011 the episodes became more frequent but still converted quickly almost every time with exercise and I started taking Flecainide 50 mg twice a day,most episodes are triggered by oesophageal irritation from chronic Gerd or excess stomach gas that results in belching . Episodes still average about once a week or so

. So far so good, I also get other ectopics which can be frequent at times but they also are reasonably well controlled by magnesium supplements potassium rich foods and the flecainide I am 67 , and will avoid the ablation option
unless the A-Fib becomes more bothersome .



"Age of people who have Acid reflux when taking Flecainide acetate *:"


60+: 85.19 %
[www.ehealthme.com]
Re: A quick question, could very fast heart rate in AF induce VF?
June 05, 2018 02:26PM
Hello Ian - It has been a while. Good to hear from you. The flecainide can be a contributor but the study referenced also mentioned the occurrence increased when same patients were also using aspirin. There are numerous steps you can take to help remedy acid reflux which typically comes because of lack of natural stomach acid due to not enough of the nutrients required for that production. There are multiple previous posts on this topic. Send me a PM if you'd like more info.

Jackie
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