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30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min

Posted by NickC 
30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 12, 2018 10:56AM
Yesterday when we first visited him on the cardiac ward his heart rate was fluctuating between 30 and 130 bpm and PVC's were around 60 per min.

Not sure which of these helped but we gave him half a glass of Colloidal Silver, a few drips of distilled Frankincense oil and a squirt of vitamin-E oil. Within less than an hour and a half heart rate was steadyish around 60 bpm and PVC's were down to 0. I'd post a pic of his cardio monitor if I could workout how to attach an image.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 12, 2018 11:09AM
Offhand my vote would be none of the above, but who are you talking about? Why are they hospitalized? What other treatments were they receiving?
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 13, 2018 05:50AM
Yes, who is "him"?

Wondering where you got the idea for the items given, the Vit E oil, Silver and Frankencense Oil?
I have never heard of using any of these. Maybe you discovered something?
Silver is an Anti-Inflammatory, but I wonder if it would work within that short of a time-frame.

Could be the Placebo effect, and the calming effect of having caring visitors.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 07:37AM
Patient is an elderly relative, virtually 90 years old.

He was hospitalised this time as was unable to walk, or even stand, had heart rate of 25bpm and temperature of 31deg. His GP said he was alright, I disagreed so arranged for him to be admitted.

The Colloidal Silver was to try and get rid of an infection, sounds very crackly with fluid on the lungs.

Frankinscense was an accidental discovery. We were giving him that with the intention of detoxifing glyphosate. He measures his blood pressure first thing in the morning and his blood pressure monitor has an A/F indicator. We discovered that on many days after having taken frankinscense the previous day he was free of A/F.

Vitamin-E was suggested by Terry Chamberlain on his "The Natural Health Library" Facebook group and further research backs up the suggestion that vit-E is extremely good for cardio issues.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 07:50AM
He was taking the following drugs:
  • Warfarin - due to having A/F
  • Furosemide - for water retention
Apparently he is also now being given:
  • Bisoprolol - due to Ejection Fraction of 39%
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 08:03AM
bisoprolol when his HR was 25 bpm on admission??!!
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 08:54AM
bisoprolol when his HR was 25 bpm on admission??!!
Yep, I questioned that but this is the NHS for you. Everything is done in secret, if I hadn't insisted on looking at his drug chart we wouldn't have known this was being administered.

Haven't been allowed to speak to his Cardiologist yet, but intending to try and find out who it is when I visit him later today.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 09:49AM
The crackly lungs aren't due to infection. It's fluid buildup caused by his heart failure. And yeah, bisoprolol with a HR < 30 is a bad idea but they've got a difficult line to walk between the bradycardia and the heart failure. This isn't a good scenario.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 10:31AM
Most of the time his heart rate is now steady around 60bpm, just that occasionally it skips about between 30-130 before stabilising again. It seems to be the A/F which causes that, when we got his PVC's down to zero his heart-rate stabilised and stopped jumping about.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 04:10PM
It seems further to my questioning about why has was on Bisoprolol, they have now decided that it was not a good idea after all and have taken him off of it. Current plan is to insert a pacemaker to control the A/F.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 07:09PM
Pacemakers do not control AF. You have been misinformed.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 09:16PM
Wolfpack is right. The purpose of the pacemaker is to bring his heart rate back to normal levels. From what you've told us that's the right thing to do.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 14, 2018 09:21PM
The pacemaker would make sense in the context of continued use of the beta blocker to set a “floor” on Heart rate. It will insert a ventricular beat such that it averages 50 or so - a safe number that will keep one “vertical”. That’s my understanding of it.
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 15, 2018 10:51AM
Sounds like I have been missinformed then. My understanding from what I had been told was that the Atrial Fibrillation (PVC's 30/min) was causing low blood pressure and in turn the intermittent brady/tachycardia. This made sense to us as when we managed to reduce those PVC's to zero his heart-rate became perfectly stable. Supposedly the pacemaker was going to fix the A/F.

What I can still not understand is why in this senario he was given Bisoprolol, surely that would lower the blood pressure further and cause more A/F wouldn't it?
Re: 30-130BPM and 30 PVC's/min
February 15, 2018 01:45PM
Afib and PVCs aren't the same thing. Completely different issues. Frequent PVCs can cause the chambers of the heart to beat out of sync, which will worsen heart failure, and it sounds like that was his primary issue aside from heart failure. A pacemaker won't eliminate afib or PVCs, but it will keep the heart in a synchronized rhythm. So yes, it will "fix" the PVCs but has no effect on afib. I doubt if afib really has much to do with his problems right now.

The bisoprolol is almost certainly for heart failure. It reduces load on the heart and allows it to pump more effectively, which is why beta blockers are almost always given for heart failure. As I said in an earlier post, they had a fine line to walk between maintaining an adequate blood pressure and heart rate vs. lowering the work load on his heart. If they stop or reduce the bisoprolol, his heart has to work harder and won't pump as effectively. For someone with severe heart failure that could be fatal. If they continue giving it to him, it drops his heart rate and pressure too low. So it's a tradeoff and not an easy decision to second guess but the pacemaker should resolve the problems.
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