AF/migraines

Does anyone have migraines and AF?


Conclusion

We have hereby reported the case of a new onset typical visual aura 1 day after transseptal catheter ablation for atrial fibrillation, followed by the patient’s usual headaches. Although migraine and migraine aura have been reported in association with invasive cardiac interventions, the exact relationship between these migraine phenomena and cardiac procedures is poorly understood. A possible mechanism could be related to the release of endothelin-1 from the vessel wall that could induce CSD as it has been shown experimentally on rats.23 More research in this field will contribute to a better understanding of the underlying mechanisms. Brain scan is recommended in a new onset of visual aura to rule out new underlying pathology.

Liz

[https://www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440068/]

how do i get the url so that you can just get there without typing it in?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 05:58PM by Elizabeth.

Click this

Liz – First... on posting that hyperlink so that it's functional...
[https://www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440068/] You have to edit out the [ ] brackets at the beginning and end of the address ... otherwise, it isn't functional/clickable.

On your question: I have no personal experience with migraines and Afib, but I have seen various reports on migraines and mineral deficiencies including magnesium, zinc and copper… so the Mg connection is obvious. (Don't freak out at the mention of copper. It's necessary in very trace amounts and those with migraine history typically test below normal but too much can also cause migraines.) I’ve also seen discussions on low melatonin and migraines…but not related to AF. If dietary calcium is higher than magnesium intake, it could also be double trouble in those prone to migraines... and could contribute to AF. Vitamin D helps absorption of magnesium and a Vit D deficiency could sabotage one's best intentions for magnesium supplementation. The potential connections are many.

Have you been tested for the MTHFR gene mutation?

Abstract Title: Vitamin Supplementation as Possible Prophylactic Treatment against Migraine with Aura and Menstrual Migraine.
Abstract Source: Biomed Res Int. 2015;2015:469529. Epub 2015 Feb 28. PMID: 25815319
Abstract Author(s): Munvar Miya Shaik, Siew Hua Gan

Abstract:
Migraine is the most common form of headache disorder globally. The etiology of migraine is multifactorial, with genetic components and environmental interactions considered to be the main causal factors. Some researchers postulate that deficits in mitochondrial energy reserves can cause migraine or an increase in homocysteine levels can lead to migraine attacks; therefore, vitamins could play a vital role in migraine prevention. For instance, riboflavin influences mitochondrial dysfunction and prevents migraine. Genes such as flavoenzyme 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR), especially the C677T variant, have been associated with elevated plasma levels of homocysteine and migraine with aura. Homocysteine catalyzation requires the presence of vitamins B6, B12, and folic acid, which can decrease the severity of migraine with aura, making these vitamins potentially useful prophylactic agents for treating migraine with aura. Menstrual migraine, on the other hand, is associated with increased prostaglandin (PG) levels in the endometrium, indicating a role for vitamin E, which is an anti-PG. Vitamin C can also be used as a scavenger of reactive oxygen species for treating neurogenic inflammation in migraine patients. This paper reviews possible therapies based on vitamin supplementation for migraine prophylaxis, focusing on migraine with aura and menstrual migraine.
Article Published Date : Dec 31, 2014

Studies Indicate that MTHFR Gene Plays a Role in Migraine
[migraineagain.com]


More potential connections to migraines (out of a huge number on the topic)...….
Gonullu H, Gonullu E, Karadas S, Arslan M, Kalemci O, Aycan A, Sayin R, Demir H. The levels of trace elements and heavy metals in patients with acute migraine headache. J Pak Med Assoc. 2015 Jul;65(7):694-7.

Ercal N, Gurer-Orhan H, Aykin-Burns N. Toxic metals and oxidative stress part I: mechanisms involved in metal-induced oxidative damage. Curr Top Med Chem. 2001 Dec;1(6):529-39.

Stohs SJ, Bagchi D. Oxidative mechanisms in the toxicity of metal ions. Free Radic Biol Med. 1995 Feb;18(2):321-36.

Messner B, Knoflach M, Seubert A, Ritsch A, Pfaller K, Henderson B, Shen YH, Zeller I, Willeit J, Laufer G, Wick G, Kiechl S, Bernhard D. Cadmium is a novel and independent risk factor for early atherosclerosis mechanisms and in vivo relevance. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2009 Sep;29(9):1392-8. doi: 10.1161/ATVBAHA.109.190082.

Teigen L, Boes CJ. An evidence-based review of oral magnesium supplementation in the preventive treatment of migraine. Cephalalgia. 2014 Dec 22. pii: 0333102414564891.

Jackie

This one is right up my alley. As I sit here 3 months post 4th ablation battling visual auras and migraines. My first visual aura came after my first ablation three years ago, I never had them in my life or migraines.

First one three years ago about 5 days after my ablation. I was watching TV and notice my vision getting difficult. Then came the light show, flashing zig zags and loss of peripheral vision. I was sure I was having a stroke, I went straight to the ER. I was admitted, full MRI and workup overnight stay and nothing was found. I was released with no answer. I would go on to have many auras for months after that eventually stopped.

Then 2nd ablation, same pattern, then 3rd ablation, same pattern.

Now 4th ablation the 1st with Natale and same pattern actually worse, I cannot go a week without an Aura, and this is the first time in three years I have been afib free for one month. Recognizing what they are now I have had an aura the day after each of the last two ablations.

I am hopeful they settle down soon. What causes it, the ablation, the healing, the adrenaline they pump you with, who knows. But I have clear repeatable pattern for years now.

I have had too many brain MRI's to count, Ophthalmology visits, neurology visits. etc. There is some link that is not fully understood clearly. What stinks is with every Aura it takes days for my vision to not be so light sensitive and wonky but when they happen weekly you never get a break. It is putting a damper on my 1st month free of afib in years but I remain hopeful based on previous patterns it will sort out.

I've read all the theories but no real answers.

Fib:

Sorry to hear about your aura migraines I don't know which is worse sometimes AF or those Auras., i posted to see if after an ablation, according to the article, how many on this site had any problems with these auras.

I also was wondering if there is any correlation between AF and Aura Migraines. I have had a few aura migraines throughout my life but only a couple a year. Thinking back i started getting more of these aura migraines when I started getting more episodes of AF.

You said after 3 months they tend to stop, have they gone on any longer than that. Do you take magnesium, I take it but perhaps not enough. My mother had AF and she also had some episodes of aura migraines.
Thank you for your post.

Liz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2017 10:17PM by Elizabeth.

I had my first occular migraine about 6 years ago. I’m certain I had afib episodes back then, but no official diagnosis. I had maybe 3 a year for 3 years, then they went away. The very first one I had was the worst. I was in a big box store, and the visual distortion so bad I could barely see to get out of the store and to my car. I sat in my car for a good 30 minutes until I could see to drive home. Then the debilitating headache came followed by that wiped out feeling. I slept for 18 hours in a dark room. I should have gone to the ER but it was a holiday weekend, and I knew what would happen if I did. The next business day my excellent ophthalmologist looked me over very well and talked to me about it. He explained they happen, aren’t uncommon, and not generally serious.

In 2017 I’ve had 2 ablations, the most recent in June by Natale. Afib free since, but boy have I had my share of visual auras since the 1st ablation. Each lasts about 20 minutes. They seem to come in waves, a couple three times a week, then nothing for a few weeks. More often this past summer and since their frequency has slowed. I think extreme luminance in a high contrast lighting environment can trigger them. I seem to be more light sensitive nowadays, but I always have been. I’ve learned to not fear them, knowing they will pass. They are really now just an inconvenience. Are they related to the ablations? I have no idea. I don’t usually get the migraine headache with the auras.

AB Page:

Well that is two so far that have had auras after an ablation, there has got to have some kind of correlation. Maybe Shannon can weight in and when he sees Dr. Natalie he could run it by him.

Liz

Jackie:

I have never had the MTHFR test---but my b12 was always over the lab scale, it now is just under and my B vit. always tested ok, Homosystene was good as well. I have tried all kinds of things, some times it helps then I get them again. I guess I am just wired wrong.

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
AB Page:

Well that is two so far that have had auras after an ablation, there has got to have some kind of correlation. Maybe Shannon can weight in and when he sees Dr. Natalie he could run it by him.

Liz

Elizabeth,

I've read of other's experiences with them after ablations as well, so at least anecdotally there is documentation this happens. I never had the visual only aspect or aura, until after the first ablation.

If you look up the wikipedia article on them, the artist's rendition of the aura looks EXACTLY like what happens to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 08:06AM by AB Page.

Liz - It’s blood folate levels that are implicated with the MTHFR gene mutations or variants and need to be measured. Supplementing with the natural form of folate (L-5 - MTHF) under supervision is typically recommended with regular monitoring.

The expert on MTHFR is Dr. Benjamin Lynch… his website is mind-boggling with research and explanations about methylation defects or polymorphisms.
Website: [mthfr.net]

I did a quick scan and found this study link on migraines:
[www.sciencedirect.com]

Research Report - Thymidylate synthase promoter tandem repeat and MTHFD1 R653Q polymorphisms modulate the risk for migraine conferred by the MTHFR T677 allele

At this link, Dr. Lynch provides a list of 64 symptoms resulting from MTHFR mutations: [mthfr.net] Migraines with aura are #30

At his website, Dr. Lynch offers an educational video on Methylation defects. I’ve heard him speak in other webinars so didn’t play this one, but they are typically very educational with detailed information. Testing is the only way to know for sure.

Kelly Brogan, MD, is another who offers good information on the methylation topic. Here’s one example: [kellybroganmd.com]

Jackie

Genes, mineral deficienices etc. are all theories but it is clear for me the ablation sets off a pattern. Prior to my 1st ablation I had plenty of afib and no aura/migraine. They started after the ablation. I'm not inclined to think it is some deficiency, it is just to coincidental and a repeatable pattern for me. I'd love to believe vitamins and supplements are the answer but I don't think so and I am not inclined to go down the path of more random testing with more questions and less answers.

My schedule has been such that I have pretty much had an ablation every 6 months for the past two years. It seems this 4th one may be the ticket and I will see what happens with aura pattern from here. Someone mentioned light senstivity, most definitly ever since these auras.

There is a connection we just can't say exactly what it is. I also have a PLSVC so who knows how my nerves of the heart are tied to the old melon upstairs.

Apple Cider Vinegar with honey is a wonder drug for Migraine.
Earthclinic has other remedies also, but this seems to be the most popular.
[www.earthclinic.com]
Here is another site about ACV and Honey for Migraines.
[www.curezone.org]

Apple Cider Vinegar seems to be the cure all on every Forum for everything.

The main reason organic, raw ACV helps so many conditions is that it is provides an alkaline tissue pH whereas other vinegars and similar are acid ash-producing. The results from using a reliable brand such as Bragg's organic raw ACV have been documented for a very long time as being very successful... which makes sense when you understand the necessity of maintaining an alkaline tissue pH. This is different than blood pH which is held to a close tolerance to maintain health.

Paul and Patricia Bragg, Naturopaths and PhDs have written extensively about the benefits. However, they are often critiqued as producing scam information... apparently because those who are critical don't understand concept of alkaline-forming foods versus acid-forming foods and the effects of metabolism which is the focus of the historic book, Alkalize or Die, by Theodore Baroody, who is a naturopathic physician, chiropractor, PhD in nutrition and Certified in Nutritional Counseling.

You can think of alkaline tissue pH v. acidic in terms similar to Yin and Yang of Eastern culture or Oriental Medicine.
Extremely acidic pH producing foods and habits such as anger, fear, jealousy and stress produce extremely low tissue pH (acidic) whereas meditation, prayer, love, kindness are on the opposite end and are extremely alkaline forming.

ACV can offer big improvements in one's health along with appropriate lifestyle adjustments as well. You have to eat the alkaline forming foods and modify habits as just drinking the ACV doesn't do the whole task.

Jackie

GeorgeN brought up MTHR in another topic, and i pulled it up in my PC that i have saved .Looks like it is connected to migraines too..


MTHR and Migraines
[migraineagain.com]
According to MTHFR Living, “High homocysteine can also cause migraines, macular degeneration, hearing loss, blood clots, a weakened immune system, inflammation, pregnancy complications and/or Alzheimer’s Disease, among other serious problems.”
[mthfrliving.com] MTHFR Living
Manage Homocysteine Levels to Manage Migraine
If you suffer from migraines there is strong evidence that managing your homocysteine level by addressing your MTHFR mutations can reduce the severity of your headaches.
[migraineagain.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2017 05:51PM by afibbers.

None of that addresses though why the ablation in particular is setting off the pattern in my view.

Fibrillator - it's known that for those with methylation defects, they are typically extremely chemically sensitive... even various forms of supplemental nutrients and certain foods can cause all sorts of extreme reactions. Based on that, I'd offer the speculation that the chemicals introduced during an ablation might be a migraine trigger for some individuals either with methylation defects or especially if the liver detoxing function is suboptimal - ie liver clearance efficiency versus stagnation.

I have no personal experience with migraines, but I do have very well controlled MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities) which, when I'm exposed to certain odors or chemicals or food additives, can give me various distress symptoms. I treated for a long time to support and improve liver function and clearance so that's rarely an issue now... but after ablations, I have noted a short period of time where I'm feeling a bit lethargic from the anesthesia and other chemicals while my liver detoxing process is on overload. I wasn't young when I had the ablations so that was an additional factor for efficient clearance. The good news is that all cleared out quickly and I had no residuals.

It's important to have the MTHFR testing so that if you do have it, you can begin with the necessary changes.

Jackie

Fibrillator:

i question why you get so many auras after your ablation, there is a connection. I have gotten them because of some supplements, also started getting them after using a hormone cream, stopped it and the auras stopped. It appears to me that something triggers them and when stopped so do they.

Liz

Jackie:

Dr Brownstein never seemed to think i needed to test for MTHFR---perhaps because my homosystene is low and my B12 has always been high, in fact it used to be always higher than the lab value, I always wondered why it was so high. However the next time I see him I will ask him.

Liz

Do I use genetic genie or other to analyze my 23and me for this?

Fibrillator... This link by Dr. Lynch describes what the test involves. If you can't find a local physician who does that type of testing... probably a Naturopath or Functional Medicine practitioner, then you can order it directly from Dr. Lynch...
[www.mthfrdoctors.com]

At this link there is a tab to "find a doctor." I checked my area and found several listings... one, a Functional Endocrinologist, one from Integrative Wellness, and several others with just the name of the physician...so if you find any, you can interview by phone to see what they offer.

Be sure you read the descriptive info at this link... scroll down a bit to where this begins:

Home test kit for MTHFR and COMT gene mutations.

MTHFR

MTHFR (Methylenetetrahydrofolate Reductase) is very critical in the function of methylation, a complex biochemical process that regulates gene expression (turns genes on & off) and governs intracellular detoxification. MTHFR is needed for the metabolism of folate (folic acid) and is a cofactor needed to convert homocysteine (a potentially toxic amino acid) to methionine. MTHFR has been linked by many researches to conditions such as Blood Clots, Heart Disease, Fibromyalgia, Migraine Headaches, Infertility, Autism, Birth Defects, Miscarriages, IBS, Mental Illness and many more.

MTHFR C677T can also lead to high homocysteine. Although it does not necessarily mean there will be high homocysteine levels in a clinical setting as there are other factors that can influence homocysteine levels. This allele has shown in research to have a greater impact in someone’s health.

I certainly hope you are able to find the cause of your migraines. I can't begin to imagine.
My heart goes out to you,
Jackie

My neuro is willing to do a homocysteine test. He surprisingly also said Magnesium citrate or oxide can help and try up to 500mg if tolerable.

Fibrillator - A homocysteine test alone may not tell you all you need to know...but it's a start.

Magnesium deficiency can also contribute to migraines (and afib) so if you aren't supplementing, it's good to begin.
Start with low doses and ramp up slowly as your GI tract becomes acclimated to the magnesium.... as bowel tolerance issues can be a surprise you don't need.

Also, be aware that the oxide form of magnesium, while very cheap, is also very limited in absorption...so choose from the various other forms such as the citrate (often has rapid laxation effects for some), malate, orotate, gluconate and my favorite, magnesium amino acid chelate. Check this magnesium report for more details... [www.afibbers.org]

For some reason, I thought you had been using magnesium... sorry that I missed that detail. It's fundamental for afibbers and also for those with migraines to be sure the intracellular supply is optimized. I hope that once you have stabilized on your tolerance dose of Mg after a month or so, you start to have relief from the migraines. Wish you well... and let us know.
Best to you,
Jackie

I have been random in my magnesium. Frankly I wanted minimal new variables while in this balnking period.

Does anyone have a Magnesium supplement suggestion now that Dr. Best's quality is in question?

FYI, I get these aura migraines and stop them with a dose of Mag.

Thanks!

Que:

Glad the mag. stops your aura migraines, doesn't work for me. I had an episode of AF last night it lasted into the early afternoon of today and this morning I took some extra Propafenone I got an aura migraine a few hours later. Now is the propafenone causing them or is the AF causing them, I have in the past gotten both in the same day, I am ready to give up.

Liz

I took some Mg the other day and swear my HR went up high for day and I had a headache so who knows. Just as an information point, I have been off antiryhtmics for a month now and tapering off metoprolol. Only on 12.5mg for last week and will stop in a few days. First time in years I will be heart med free other than Elequis for now.

I have also been afib free since my procedure. So it is not afib or meds causing these headaches for me. Given a 4 time pattern over the years, it is related to the ablation or healing or both. Given this Natale ablation was the most complex and the most burning of them all in my head at least I tell myself that is why the pattern is worse and longer this time.

I have an appointment in a few months with a new Neuro who is recognized for putting together oddball variables for rare things and also treats migranes. Doubt there is an answer but you never know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 02:38PM by Fibrillator.

Fibrillator - what is the form and brand of the magnesium you're taking? I'd like to check the ingredient list on the label.

I know how you feel eliminating the meds from your daily protocols. While Eliquis is important, it's also not without side effects, unfortunately. Catch 22. Anecdotal reports indicate some people associate their migraines with Eliquis. Hopefully, you'll soon be off that drug and once it clears from your system, you may begin to have relief.

Jackie

Doctor's best. I am really going to focus on dietary intake of Mg and Potassium. Which I have been doing, nuts, coconut water, avocados, low sodium V8 etc.

Way back when I got my first Aura after frist round of ablations I was on Xarelto. I think Eliquis came about after ablation #2. So I had them before. There are so many variables here and not a one size answer for sure. The commonality is the ablation.

If all continues well I head to Austin next spring, anticipate a successful TEE and off the Elequis. But I don't want to jinx myself, happy to be afib free for one month.

I hope in time these migraines fade. I don't want to spend all the good minutes researching and chasing causes either. Who knows with my PLSVC what artery is connected to what and what nerve goes where and sets this all off.