Hawthorn berry

Hi all:

I went to my Holistic doctor today, I have been seeing him for probably about 12 years. We never discussed AF before as I always went to my EP for that. I had an episode of AF last night and I mentioned it to him, he said he had AF yesterday after doing his exercises, I was stunned, he mentioned that his father had AF when he was younger. He told me that he took some Hawthorn berry vitamin and it stopped his AF. He said that I should take CircuFlow, a dietary supplement, the supplement has Hawthorn berry, Horsetail, Chromium Selenium, Vitamin C, Taurine and Arginine, 3 a day, I have the supplement and will take it.

I know that in the past there has been some talk on this site about Hawthorn berry but I think this is a little different, it is a supplement with other herbs listed, anyway can't hurt to try.

Liz

Hi Liz, after my cardiologist appointment and my disappointment in his (their) approach i took the risk of seeing a medically qualified doctor who became a holistic one.
She initially gave me some medicine containing hawthorn - just for a few weeks. She also told me to drink hawthorn berries tea. While it didn't stop afib instantly i suspect it has kept it at bay for the last 2 years. Of course, she gave me quite a few dietary recommendations as well.
I still drink that tea with 4 or 5 other herbs added - shotgun approach and taking a punt that they do some good.

When i saw her initially i was quite skeptical. As mentioned, the cardiologist didn't even think that CV would work on me and that he'd be very worried if he were in my position.
Simple fact is that they don't understand what causes afib in the first place. They are still experimenting on us with palliative measures.

Would be nice if a researcher like Bredesen MD who is working (quite successfully by the sound of it) slowing down, stopping and even reversing Alzheimer's. He take into account genetics, blood test etc to determine the patients individuality and tailors his support program accordingly - addressing the cause of the problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2017 02:41AM by Joe.

Joe:

So you say you have been drinking Hawthorn berry tea for a couple of years and you think it has helped you, thats good. I started on the supplement my doc gave me, it can't hurt. My doctor said it stopped his Af, exercising brought his episode on, I told him about this site and that a lot of people that do heavy exercises are prone to AF.

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
My doctor said it stopped his Af, exercising brought his episode on, I told him about this site and that a lot of people that do heavy exercises are prone to AF.

Hey Liz, did he say if exercise brought it on during the exercise or some time later?

George

George:

He said that he was exercising and went into AF, so it was while he was exercising, he said he took Hawthorn berry and it stopped his AF. It is amazing, dr. Brownstein has done everything right, his diets etc. yet he got AF. Our DNA is powerful stuff, maybe doctor B will get a handle on AF that will benefit us.

Liz.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 12:18AM by Elizabeth.

My afib is not exercise induced, but I love this hawthorn berry idea. Are you taking it in pill form or tea? How much? I would much rather experiment with herbal solutions than follow my quack cardiologist.

Jennifer:

It is a supplement which contains various herbs along with Hawthorne berry. The name of the supplement is CircuFlow, I got it from my doctor. Hawthorne berry is the most popular heart supplement in France, Germany and Switzerland.

The bottle says Kroeger Herb products co. inc.

Liz

Do you know if CircuFlow has any interactions with xeralto?

CircuFlow helps maintain cardiovascular system and a healthy circulatory system, I don't know if there would be any interactions with xeralto. I wouldn't take it without first asking your doctor.

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
George:

He said that he was exercising and went into AF, so it was while he was exercising, he said he took Hawthorn berry and it stopped his AF. It is amazing, dr. Brownstein has done everything right, his diets etc. yet he got AF. Our DNA is powerful stuff, maybe doctor B will get a handle on AF that will benefit us.

Liz.

So sounds like an adrenergic trigger (as the afib came during exercise). Makes sense. I too am surprised that Dr. B would have cardiovascular issues.

It is then less likely this would be of benefit to those of us with vagal triggers (with delayed onset after exercise, sometimes hours to several days) and no cardiovascular issues at all.

George:

I have read that if you get AF then you do have cardiovascular issues. I am vagal but this supplement that Dr. B said for me to take is CircuFlow, 3 tabs/day. I know what you are saying, that taking Hawthorne berry would not benefit us as it did for Dr.. B because he is adrenergic. However I take Propafenone (which has a beta blocker) and chew it when I get an episode of AF and it has really shortened my episodes.

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
George:

I have read that if you get AF then you do have cardiovascular issues. I am vagal but this supplement that Dr. B said for me to take is CircuFlow, 3 tabs/day. I know what you are saying, that taking Hawthorne berry would not benefit us as it did for Dr.. B because he is adrenergic. However I take Propafenone (which has a beta blocker) and chew it when I get an episode of AF and it has really shortened my episodes.

Liz

Liz, I certainly see no harm in taking CircuFlow and if it works, wonderful (and please report back)! I just think those who are adrenergic and have underlying cardiac or metabolic issues are the ones most likely to benefit.

I look at Propafenone for vagal afibbers, when used on-demand, differently than when used daily. I can understand it working to convert you to NSR in an episode. Where I wouldn't want to use it is daily for an afibber with vagal triggers, because the beta blocking characteristics may actually promote afib.

George

Well George I do take Propafenone everyday---I take one 150mg. tab every night at bedtime, my Ep didn't like Flec. for me. What is the difference if there is some beta blocker in Propafenone or taking some beta blocker with Flec as it indicated to so?

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
Well George I do take Propafenone everyday---I take one 150mg. tab every night at bedtime, my Ep didn't like Flec. for me. What is the difference if there is some beta blocker in Propafenone or taking some beta blocker with Flec as it indicated to so?
Liz

It is a good question. I don't take a BB with flec (which I only use on-demand and I need it very infrequently), I stay prone to minimize the possibility of flutter. I'm not as familiar with propafenone as with flec, however my understanding is the loading dose for on demand use is twice as much for propafenone as flec. Hence a 150 mg tab would be similar to 75 mg of flec. This is a fairly small dose, so perhaps the BB impact is small. I do know that, in general, BB's are not indicated for vagal afibber for use on a chronic or daily basis as they can increase the amount of afib. Taking a BB during an episode is different. I don't know how sensitive many cardio's or EP's are to the vagal/adrenergic triggers. My second cardio, 13 years ago, told me he didn't believe in vagal or adrenergic triggers and his favorite med was digoxin. I refused to take it and switched to his EP partner who did understand vagal/adrenergic.

George