Electronic Devices increase intracellular calcium and more

More information is coming forth about risks from Electropollution. Six years ago, as a result of several webinars, I offered two posts the EMF topic with considerations for Cardiovascular Risk. Links follow.

This clip comes from a new report quoting Martin Pall, PhD…..”who has identified and published several papers describing the molecular mechanisms of how EMFs from cellphones and wireless technologies damage plants, animals and humans.”

Several observations are relevant to afibbers with regard to intracellular calcium increases and should be an important alert to all former afibbers and those who are currently dealing with PACs or outright arrhythmias….since we know the importance of the intracellular electrolyte ratios and balances and the fact that elevated IC calcium causes trouble.

Now this report indicates that EMF exposure increases intracellular calcium and how it does that !!!

Quotes to motivate you to learn more and take steps to reduce your EMF exposure …

... " Many studies have shown that when you're exposed to EMFs, intracellular calcium increases. Pall also discovered a number of studies showing that you can block or greatly reduce the effects of EMFs using calcium channel blockers — medication commonly prescribed to patients with heart disease.

This turns out to be a crucial point, because it's the excess calcium in the cell and the increased calcium signaling that are responsible for a vast majority of the biological effects of EMFs.

Pall has discovered no less than 26 papers showing that EMFs work by activating voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs), which are located in the outer membrane of your cells. Once activated, they allow a tremendous influx of calcium into the cell — about 1 million calcium ions per second per VGCC.

This turns out to be a crucial point, because it's the excess calcium in the cell and the increased calcium signaling that are responsible for a vast majority of the biological effects of EMFs.

Common heart problems linked to EMF exposure include:
• Cardiac arrhythmias (associated with sudden cardiac death)
• Atrial fibrillation / atrial flutter
• Premature atrial contractions (PACs) and premature ventricular contractions (PVCs), also known as heart palpitations
• Tachycardia (fast heartbeat) and brachycardia (slow heartbeat)... " (end quotes)

Be sure to read the complete report and then start thinking about your EMF exposure and what you can do to reduce and eliminate where possible for all the obvious reasons.

Source: The Real Dangers of Electronic Devices and EMFs [articles.mercola.com]


Previous Electropollution posts:
Electropollution: Cardiovascular Risk?
Part 1 [www.afibbers.org]
Part 2 [www.afibbers.org]

Jackie

Jackie:

A smart meter was installed on the corner of my house, where all the other services are. My bedroom is on that side, this meter was installed about 7 months ago, the last two months I have been hearing a noise that sounds like purring or snoring, lasts about a minute (or just a little less) it started waking me up, it isn't all the time but off and on throughout the day and night.
It didn't sound like an animal so I contacted all of the people that have their services on that wall, they came out looked at their meter, opened them, said no problem. I then called a person from Pest control, he heard the sound and said that is no animal. My neighbor does not have a problem with any sounds. I cannot take this anymore I am calling my power company tomorrow and telling them I want that meter taken off and put an analog meter on. I understand from my search on the net that you can get that meter swapped out but you have to pay a certain fee every month (which would be worth it), but not sure if they will do it. If they don't I am going to tell them that I will pull it off. There are covers that block most of the radiation of these meters, you can buy them or on u tube there are directions how to make one. But, that won't solve my noise problem, has anyone here have a similar problem?

Liz

Mercola is a fraud.

Follow the money trail with Mercola and you'll find his real expertise.

Read carefully... The findings reported by Dr. Mercola are from an interview with Martin Pall, PhD.....
Has nothing to do with Dr. Mercola's source of revenue.


[electromagnetichealth.org]

Also, to clarify the legitimacy of concerns about EMF radiation damage, refer to the ongoing work published by
George Carlos, PhD, JD since he's been writing about the coverup of these risks for a long time.

[cellphones.procon.org]


The focus of my original post was the revelation about the production of intracellular calcium and the connection or potential to cause arrhythmias. It could certainly help explain the increasing prevalence of arrhythmias and PACs, etc. since the science is there.

Jackie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2017 01:19PM by Jackie.

Liz - I can understand your frustration.

Apparently for some individuals who are said to be "electrically sensitive," smart meters can cause headaches, ringing in the ears and insomnia after the smart meter is installed. Perhaps the noises you are noticing are being produced in your ear... similar to ringing, yet different sound. I don't know...only a speculation. It's unfortunate that you weren't given the option prior to installation so you could opt out.

Hopefully, you can get it resolved quickly without undue expense and stress.

Jackie

The guy from pest control heard it as well, twice, he said he would be available to say so as well. He did tell me that these meters can and have caused fires.

Liz

Carey and Gagheld:

Mercola is right on this one, there is a lot of stuff on the net about these meters.

Liz

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Elizabeth
Mercola is right on this one, there is a lot of stuff on the net about these meters.

And a broken clock is right twice a day.

If you want to convince me of something, you have to start with sources I will even read and Mercola isn't one of them. I'm serious. He's a proven fraud so I won't bother reading a word he publishes. I know a lot of people who will say the same thing, including most of the entire medical science community. If he's the only source you can find to support a claim, then the claim is probably wrong.

I know a little about the EMF issue and I'm willing to hear more and be swayed, but so far there's nothing here that I find compelling.

Not trying to be argumentative or a nit picker. This goes to basic scientific credibility.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2017 08:01PM by Carey.

Carey:

For your reading pleasure:

[emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meters/smart-meter-health-complaints]

[www.emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meters/]

Liz



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2017 04:31PM by Elizabeth.

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Elizabeth
For your reading pleasure:
Liz

All these articles are posted on activist web sites that don't even pretend to be objective. They're mostly anecdotal, they almost all contain factual errors, and they like to say their information is backed by peer reviewed studies but they provide no citations for those alleged studies. Why not?

Does anyone have anything from a reputable, objective source? When I see stuff like this on a web site's banner, I'm not going to consider it a reliable source. They have a social justice agenda, not a science agenda.

Quote

We envision a world free of EMF pollution where children, communities, and nature thrive! Our mission is to educate and empower people by providing science and solutions to reduce EMFs to improve lives, achieve public policy change, and obtain environmental justice.

Too many people are having problems, for me, this noise that has been waking me is driving me crazy. I am going to have an analog meter exchanged for this "smart" meter. I have to pay for the exhange and pay a fee every month but it will be well worth it to stop the noise. This noise started a few months after the "smart meter" was put on my house, I have lived in this house for 35 years without such a problem. You can believe what you want and i will do the same.

Liz

I don't doubt you when you say it's making noise. All I can suggest about that is complaining to the electric company. There's no reason a meter should make any noise (the one that's been on my house for years doesn't).

What I'm skeptical of are the health issues attributed to EMF. That's not a new issue and the consensus of the evidence is that the extremely low-power signals from wifi, cell phones, etc. are not harmful. What people forget about EMF is that our bodies are bombarded by much higher power electromagnetic signals 24/7 and have been since the day we were born (conceived, actually). Aside from the obvious sources like radio, TV and radar, there are interstellar sources so this isn't even new historically. It's been happening since mankind evolved from slimy creatures in the mud. And all these sources are far more powerful than the signals from phones and wifi routers. So if EMF is harmful, it's been harming us since antiquity and there's nothing we can do about it other than live in lead-lined homes with no TV, radio, phones, or internet.

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Carey
So if EMF is harmful, it's been harming us since antiquity and there's nothing we can do about it other than live in lead-lined homes with no TV, radio, phones, or internet.

While I admittedly can't add much scientifically or even anecdotally to this topic, I can suggest to anyone that loves a high quality drama to watch Better Call Saul. A primary character lives with what he believes to be a hypersensitivity to EMF, and it essentially destroys his life. It's a fascinating character study about what someone believes to be true, even when proven otherwise.

I literally worked next to a television transmitter, for many years. Between the massive amounts of electricity and RF, I don't believe I was ever harmed. With a brother that has had a PM/Defib for 20 years (several by now) and a mother with an arrhythmia, I know the origin of my heart's electrical abnormalities. Yet I believe that if someone buys into an external cause, with enough conviction, it can become real enough to have a negative impact.

People… please. For a rational moment of scientific reasoning, consider the facts presented by Dr. Martin Pall and this very relevant observation:

Pall has discovered no less than 26 papers showing that EMFs work by activating voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs), which are located in the outer membrane of your cells. Once activated, they allow a tremendous influx of calcium into the cell — about 1 million calcium ions per second per VGCC.

Think about what that means in terms of Afib… an overload of intracellular calcium… (blocking the function of magnesium!!!)

Following is one of Pall’s studies…. Read through with the focus for afibbers regarding the influx of calcium into cells…and consider the escalating prevalence of atrial fibrillation compared to 20 years ago with far less EMF exposure. Now, many more younger people are being affected when it was typically older people. Why? Might it be the EMF exposure to which everyone is inundated? Schools provide iPads, cell phones on 24/7, autos contribute to the load - as just the obvious. What about the hidden sources?

It doesn’t matter if you have a genetic history or tendency for AF…. because we know from the field of Epigenetics that given the right tools and information, each individual has the potential to over-ride the genetic factor if the commitment is there to pursue.... and all the more reason to become factually educated.


Rev Environ Health. 2015;30(2):99-116. doi: 10.1515/reveh-2015-0001.

Scientific evidence contradicts findings and assumptions of Canadian Safety Panel 6: microwaves act through voltage-gated calcium channel activation to induce biological impacts at non-thermal levels, supporting a paradigm shift for microwave/lower frequency electromagnetic field action.

Pall ML.

Abstract
This review considers a paradigm shift on microwave electromagnetic field (EMF) action from only thermal effects to action via voltage-gated calcium channel (VGCC) activation. Microwave/lower frequency EMFs were shown in two dozen studies to act via VGCC activation because all effects studied were blocked by calcium channel blockers. This mode of action was further supported by hundreds of studies showing microwave changes in calcium fluxes and intracellular calcium [Ca2+]i signaling. The biophysical properties of VGCCs/similar channels make them particularly sensitive to low intensity, non-thermal EMF exposures. Non-thermal studies have shown that in most cases pulsed fields are more active than are non-pulsed fields and that exposures within certain intensity windows have much large biological effects than do either lower or higher intensity exposures; these are both consistent with a VGCC role but inconsistent with only a heating/thermal role. Downstream effects of VGCC activation include calcium signaling, elevated nitric oxide (NO), NO signaling, peroxynitrite, free radical formation, and oxidative stress.

Downstream effects explain repeatedly reported biological responses to non-thermal exposures: oxidative stress; single and double strand breaks in cellular DNA; cancer; male and female infertility; lowered melatonin/sleep disruption; cardiac changes including tachycardia, arrhythmia, and sudden cardiac death; diverse neuropsychiatric effects including depression; and therapeutic effects. Non-VGCC non-thermal mechanisms may occur, but none have been shown to have effects in mammals. Biologically relevant safety standards can be developed through studies of cell lines/cell cultures with high levels of different VGCCs, measuring their responses to different EMF exposures.

The 2014 Canadian Report by a panel of experts only recognizes thermal effects regarding safety standards for non-ionizing radiation exposures. Its position is therefore contradicted by each of the observations above.

The Report is assessed here in several ways including through Karl Popper's assessment of strength of evidence. Popper argues that the strongest type of evidence is evidence that falsifies a theory; second strongest is a test of "risky prediction"; the weakest confirms a prediction that the theory could be correct but in no way rules out alternative theories. All of the evidence supporting the Report's conclusion that only thermal effects need be considered are of the weakest type, confirming prediction but not ruling out alternatives.

In contrast, there are thousands of studies apparently falsifying their position. The Report argues that there are no biophysically viable mechanisms for non-thermal effects (shown to be false, see above). It claims that there are many "inconsistencies" in the literature causing them to throw out large numbers of studies; however, the one area where it apparently documents this claim, that of genotoxicity, shows no inconsistencies; rather it shows that various cell types, fields and end points produce different responses, as should be expected.

The Report claims that cataract formation is produced by thermal effects but ignores studies falsifying this claim and also studies showing [Ca2+]i and VGCC roles.

It is time for a paradigm shift away from only thermal effects toward VGCC activation and consequent downstream effects.

PMID:25879308
DOI: 10.1515/reveh-2015-0001
[Indexed for MEDLINE]

And…..

Consider the story of Integrative Cardiologist, Stephen Sinatra’s son who nearly died as a result of
Electro-Hyper Sensitivity (EHS) from the exposure he received while working in a Wall Street office. When Steph
finally recovered, Dr. Sinatra teamed up with Magda Havas, PhD, well known for her work in educating about the health risks of Electrosensitivity. Both have written extensively to share the science behind the risks.

On wireless radiation, Dr. Sinatra says: "We are bioelectrical beings by nature, and our hearts and nervous systems are especially vulnerable to electrical disturbances. Wireless radiation, with its non-harmonious jagged waveforms, can disturb our natural biorhythms. From a cardiac perspective, wireless radiation may affect the rate and rhythm of our heartbeats, which can cause arrhythmias or heart palpitations; some complex or malignant arrhythmias can lead to sudden death."

Previous post on the Electropollution/Toxic Frequencies topic:
[www.afibbers.org]

And this one for background and findings by those who understand the science
[heartmdinstitute.com]


Jackie

Quote
Jackie
People… please. For a rational moment of scientific reasoning, consider the facts presented by Dr. Martin Pall and this very relevant observation:
Jackie

I certainly wasn’t trying to make light of this and I apologize if it was taken that way.

Jackie, you cited yourself? Really?

I'm still waiting for evidence from an objective, peer reviewed source. Why is that hard to find if what you say is true?

I'm also waiting for an explanation of why high-energy EMF that we've all been exposed to since before birth is harmless, but low-energy EMF from cell phones and wifi is deadly. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Carey:

You said that you had 6 ablations--- that is a lot didn't you do your scientific homework?

Liz

Quote
Elizabeth
You said that you had 6 ablations--- that is a lot didn't you do your scientific homework?

Yes, I failed spectacularly when it came to the most important homework I ever needed to do. I did a lot -- a hell of a lot more than you can probably imagine, but I ended up being wrong until the very end when I think I finally got it right.

I hope you find health without going through the failures first, and I'll do what I can to help you achieve that. If my posts seem like they're not intended to help you and everyone else here, then I apologize for communicating poorly.

I notice that I feel alot calmer, out in Country, or when I am in a big building that has much Concrete, especially, if I am down in the Basement area. I think it has something to do with too much stuff impacting the Senses or Brain. This is very noticable to me, I am sure of it.

Carey - Please explain your statement that I cited myself. I am quoting studies by others and previous posts quoting others with the corresponding links provided. Sorry I've confused you. The facts are there. The studies published.
The other topic not discussed here is the thermal risks and dangers from these EMF emitting devices. That's a whole other concern.

For this forum, the alert is the risk of the overload of calcium entering the cells.

Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Carey - Please explain your statement that I cited myself. I am quoting studies by others and previous posts quoting others with the corresponding links provided. Sorry I've confused you. The facts are there. The studies published.
The other topic not discussed here is the thermal risks and dangers from these EMF emitting devices. That's a whole other concern.

For this forum, the alert is the risk of the overload of calcium entering the cells.

You cited this post in your post above, which seemed like you're citing yourself. [www.afibbers.org]

The facts are where? Where are these studies you keep alluding to? I've asked for evidence of harm by EMF from a reputable, peer reviewed source. Why is that hard to find? The reason it's hard to find is because it doesn't exist. And it's not because the question hasn't been studied. It has, and no evidence of harm has been found.

I've also asked why low-power EMF is harmful while the high-power EMF we've been exposed to our entire lives is not, which makes absolutely no sense from an electrical or biological perspective. No answer on that either.

Calcium entering cells is an interesting observation, but does that translate into afib? There's no evidence that it does, so using it as evidence that EMF causes, triggers, or worsens afib is unjustified.

I have no idea what you mean by thermal risks. If you're close enough to an energy source powerful enough to induce temperature changes in your body, I recommend that you keep a safe distance from high-energy transmitters like TV transmitters, microwave repeaters, radar antennas and the like. (By safe distance I mean feet, not miles.)

Carey - that link to the Electropollution post that I authored does contain reference links to the experts talking about the risks of EMFs. You have to read the post and open each of the links for the details.

The focus of this current thread is to emphasizes the connection to arrhythmia via the influx of calcium since we know that intracellular calcium domination in heart cells does exactly that... thanks to Dr. Martin Pall, Professor Emeritus of Biochemistry and Basic Medical Sciences at Washington State University who is " a published and widely cited scientist on the biological effects of electromagnetic fields and speaks internationally on this topic."

Now, the Dr. Pall reference leads to many more study links about these risks... the letter to the California legislation by Ball outlines those.

Pall states:
EMFs act by activating channels in the membrane that surrounds each of our cells, called voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs). The EMFs put forces on the voltage sensor that controls the VGCCs of about 7.2 million times greater than the forces on other charged groups in our cells [4,6,7]. This is why weak EMFs have such large biological effects on the cells of our bodies! EMFs works this way not only on human and diverse animal cells [1-7] but also in plant cells [7] so that this is a universal or near universal mechanism of action.

Thousands of published studies show biological and health effects from electromagnetic fields. We now know the mechanism that can explain these effects. The mechanism is a function of the electromagnetics of each cell — not solely about heating effects from the radiation (on which present FCC guidelines are based).
(Then from his links, there are the referenced studies you'll see once you get into the research.)

You may want to read the books by Robert O. Becker, MD for some background ....
Robert Otto Becker, MD (1923 – 2008) – 5 decades of electromedical research by a man far, far ahead of his time.
The father of electromedicine and electrochemically induced cellular regeneration; a pioneer of silver plated nylon bandage in chronic wound care and regeneration of tissue. His entire bibliography with links to PubMed is offered for your education and not intended as promotional material for EarthPulse™.
[earthpulse.net]

The Body Electric - by Robert O. Becker, MD [www.emfresearch.com]
Cross Currents The Perils of Electropollution. The Promise of Electromedicine Robert O. Becker, M.D. Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc., 1990
and...
Cell Phones - Invisible Hazards in the Wireless Age by George Carlo, PhD, JD.

Jackie

Quotes and books to read, but still no published research. Why do I need to purchase and read entire books?

All I'm asking for is some peer reviewed research from a credible source that I don't have to buy somebody's book to read and isn't found on a web site dedicated to pushing an agenda.

Carey - If I had the time, I'd go to all the references provided and then copy/paste the published studies references that are on point, but I don't at the moment. Sorry.

The take-home message for other readers who have an abundance of exposure to electromagnetic radiation exposure
... ie, man made emitted from cell phones, smart meters, WiFi and other wireless technology.... and also have Atrial Fibrillation or a lot of ectopics... past or present, it makes sense to be aware of the findings about the influx of calcium into cells as a potential cause or contributor to arrhythmia.

As I've said for a long time now, I consider Afib to be our "Canary in the Coal Mine" alerting us to something that is amiss in our body... something out of balance. The challenge is, obviously, determining what that influence is.

Thus, my enthusiasm for sharing this info on the VGCCs as a significant connection because the biochemistry/physics makes perfect sense.

Be well,
Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Carey - If I had the time, I'd go to all the references provided and then copy/paste the published studies references that are on point, but I don't at the moment. Sorry.

I saw no references anywhere except books and stuff published on agenda sites. Can you please give me a single example of a peer reviewed study published in a credible journal? Just one?

Quote

Thus, my enthusiasm for sharing this info on the VGCCs as a significant connection because the biochemistry/physics makes perfect sense.

Medicine has a long, glorious history of utterly incorrect theories that made perfect sense. Just because an increase in calcium ion influx has been observed doesn't mean it has clinical significance, and I've seen zero evidence that it does.

I'm all in favor of informing people about the things that can make their afib worse, but there's enough for afibbers to worry about without adding unproven theories that lack evidence to support them. People new to afib in particular tend to grasp at anything to explain and deal with their afib, which makes them ripe targets for scammers, so I think it's important to stick to sound science. We should be denouncing frauds like Mercola instead of promoting them. The only time I see that guy's name on an afib forum should be when someone is telling newbies to avoid him.

Carey:

What do you think caused you to have AF? I do know what caused my first AF episode, I take synthroid (thyroid med) an increase in the med caused the episode, it seems that the heart remembers and over the years I started getting more of them.

I have had AF episodes off and on for 20 years, i sometimes can go 2 or 3 months without an episode then it happens. Right now I haven't had an episode for 2 months, I believe it is due to my diet in the summer months, I eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables which I raise. A lot of people take potassium as a supplement, it is not the same as getting potassium from fresh fruits and veggies. When I get an episode of AF, it doesn't last very long, I attribute that to what George N.. said on this site, he said to chew your med (I take Propafenone) when you feel an episode of AF coming on, I have been doing that and it has helped to greatly shorten the episode.

I don't know about calcium getting into our cells can cause AF, or Electronic Devices causing AF--my mother had AF, she lived on a farm (long, long time ago) they did not have any electricity, she never had a cell phone or any of the electronic devices which we have today, so what caused her AF?

Liz

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Carey

You said that you had 6 ablations--- that is a lot didn't you do your scientific homework?


Yes, I failed spectacularly when it came to the most important homework I ever needed to do. I did a lot -- a hell of a lot more than you can probably imagine, but I ended up being wrong until the very end when I think I finally got it right.

I hope you find health without going through the failures first, and I'll do what I can to help you achieve that. If my posts seem like they're not intended to help you and everyone else here, then I apologize for communicating poorly.

Carey: I would be interested in the 6 Ablation story, if you haven't posted before on it. It has been a frequent topic here, of trying to get Ablations done successfully, and avoid the scenario of multiple unsuccessful ones. I am thinking that major unresolved underlying issues contribute to this. Also specifically, if you have had any reduction in Atrial contractibility as a result of all of these Ablations.

Quote
Elizabeth
What do you think caused you to have AF?

The same thing that causes most people to have AF: genetics.

My mother had AF the last 20+ years of her life, and my older sister has been in longstanding persistent afib for about 25 years now. I take after both of them more than I do my father, who did not have afib. Another older sister who takes after him also does not have afib.

I don't know that with certainty, of course, but I think afib is a genetic disposition we're born with and ultimately the cure will be found in gene therapy.

There are exceptions, of course. Valve disease, heart surgery, hyperthyroidism, ischemia, and sleep apnea appear to be causes for some people, but those don't apply for most.

Quote
The Anti-Fib
Carey: I would be interested in the 6 Ablation story, if you haven't posted before on it. It has been a frequent topic here, of trying to get Ablations done successfully, and avoid the scenario of multiple unsuccessful ones. I am thinking that major unresolved underlying issues contribute to this. Also specifically, if you have had any reduction in Atrial contractibility as a result of all of these Ablations.

You know, that's a really good question and I think the answer is something a lot of people here need to hear, so I'm going to answer your question later today when I have more time and make it a separate thread. Look for it tonight.

Carey – here’s two:
Rev Environ Health. 2015;30(2):99-116. doi: 10.1515/reveh-2015-0001.
Scientific evidence contradicts findings and assumptions of Canadian Safety Panel 6: microwaves act through voltage-gated calcium channel activation to induce biological impacts at non-thermal levels, supporting a paradigm shift for microwave/lower frequency electromagnetic field action. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Chem Neuroanat. 2016 Sep;75(Pt :43-51. doi: 10.1016/j.jchemneu.2015.08.001. Epub 2015 Aug 21.
Microwave frequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) produce widespread neuropsychiatric effects including depression.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Also, from the Electropollution post dated May 2011… these associated citings for related studies to EMF damage other than cardiac implications:

Brain Cancer: Two analyses of 25 original publications identified a 50-90% increase in risk for two types of brain tumors: glioma and acoustic neuroma (Hardell 2009, Kundi 2009).

Salivary Gland Tumors: An Israeli study found an increased risk of 50-60% for salivary gland tumors among people with the highest cell phone use (Sadetzki 2008).

Behavioral Problems: A study of 13,159 Danish children showed an 80% elevated risk for emotional and hyperactivity problems among young children who used cell phones and whose mothers also used cell phones during pregnancy (Divan 2008).

Migraines and Vertigo: A study of 420,095 Danish adults showed that long-term cell phone users were 10-20% more likely to be hospitalized for migraines and vertigo than people who took up cell phones more recently (Schuz 2009).

And one link from the referenced resource for Dr. Sinatra’s Heart MD Institute from almost 10 years ago so undoubtedly much more now.
[link.springer.com]

Jackie

I haven't read these yet, and I will, but in the meantime thank you for posting actual science. :-)

People can make up their own minds about Mercola... I have been on this site for a long time and it has benefited me so that am well educated about my condition and therefore I am happy to read and discuss all of the information that might be relevant to AF. I'm pretty sure I;m not going to fall for some quacks supposed truths, I read read read and keep what is relevant to myself and might benefit me or others.He has published some good articles.

Can anyone recommend a good multi vitamin I can take along with the essential three, B12, D and D3, Complex B, and Theanine. Is there anything I shouldn't take? Have just been switched from Sotalol and Eliquis to Flecainide and Verapamil and Eliquis. I'm worried about the Flecainide as I stopped taking it when I read about the possible problem associated with it (I have mild CAD as well ad PD)however my Dr say it's safe ???? as I haven't had a heart attack (YET)

I am still talking to my EP re ablation as I'm getting episode four to five times a month now and some of them are real doozies. He's getting frustrated because I cant make up my mind. Any thoughts on Ablation and Vagal AG, as I'm pretty sure mine is associated with my digestion and my vagal nerve. 95% events are night time after a meal, the others from over doing exercise or just don't know. Stress probably.

Grateful for any input

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JoyWin
I'm pretty sure I;m not going to fall for some quacks supposed truths,

Not everyone is as savvy as you. People who are totally new to afib read this forum and have no idea who Mercola is. If links to his site are posted here, they're going to follow them without knowing the author is a known fraud. There's nothing on his site that can't be found on reputable sites, so linking to him is just leading newbies to a scammer and legitimizing him. So expect that whenever I see links to sources like him posted here, I'm going to speak out.

Finding references to him here also damages the credibility of this site. When I find links to fraudulent sources like Mercola on a web site, the credibility of that site immediately drops in my mind because it means the site owners tolerate and perpetuate fake science. Don't underestimate how much credibility damage someone like him does to a web site, and the more someone knows about the subject, the more it will turn them off. Pretty much any EP who comes across that name is going to roll his eyes and walk away, probably never to return again.

Carey - You're offering mis-information.

Mercola is just the messenger. He didn't do the science but rather referenced the study on his website... thus the source link.

The science comes from Martin L. Pall, Martin Pall (PhD), researcher and Professor Emeritus of Biochemistry and Basic Medical Sciences at Washington State University.

At least Mercola was smart enough to recognize the huge impact this revelation offers for the adverse health effects of
Electropollution and share it with his readers as an awareness alert.

Learn more here with this translation of one of his recent papers on the topic:

Electrosmog: The New Environmental Health Toxin? A lecture by Martin Pall, PhD
[www.electrosmogprevention.org]

Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Carey - You're offering mis-information.

Mercola is just the messenger. He didn't do the science but rather referenced the study on his website... thus the source link.

I most certainly am not. I'm not referring to what you quoted here. I'm referring to Mercola himself. He's a known fraud and has been for many years. Here's a sample: [www.quackwatch.org]

Do you see why I and pretty much the entire medical community consider a reference to him or his web site to have zero credibility? I won't even follow a link to this site because how can I possibly trust anything I find there? Do yourself a favor and when you find something you think has value on his site, go find it somewhere else before citing it. Citing Mercola will harm your own credibility because you're citing a proven liar and fraud.

Carey - I understand you are hung up on the Mercola website listing. That doesn't negate the facts that Mercola quoted from Dr. Pall's published research.

Regardless... be aware that quoting Quackwatch is risky as the author, Stephen Barrett was 'busted' a number of years ago for providing bogus information and other issues....so quoting that website has no credibility. A post was offered here some years ago on Barrett's dubious background and intentions.

The focus for my post here is the science by Dr. Pall that I quoted initially... since an overload of calcium inside heart cells is something afibbers definitely need to avoid.

Jackie

I consider the argument put forward rather than the person.

E.g. i received dodgy advise from the cardiologist(s). Two years ago he told me that cardioversion wouldn't work with me. Well the first one only worked for one hour. The second one he reluctantly agreed to has held so far.
His sole advise was to take the poison (his words) he prescribed and have enough sleep as well as a good diet.

After that i took advise from an integrative medico and followed her advise which was very much specific as far as diet etc. was likely to be helpful or harmful.

Still, i don't think the cardiologist who also trained in the US, is well regarded locally and practiced for many years (Melbourne, Australia) is a fraud. He is doing his standard of care thing.....

Bottom line is that they really don't know how to truly fix AF. Seems to me that ablation and/or drugs are just another treatment of a symptom.

Jackie, I used Quackwatch because it provides a lot of documentation, but point taken that I committed the same sin you did of citing facts from a dubious source. I'll agree not to use dubious sources if you will.

But I promise you that anytime I see Mercola's name cited as a source of anything, I'm going to call it out. I think he's probably the worst scammer in the afib arena, and there's a lot of competition for that title.

Carey - You continue to kill the messenger.... in this case, Mercola. I had not seen Dr. Pall's research announcement published anywhere else as "news" about the liberation of excess calcium resulting from EMFs... and was impressed that Mercola realized it was the research important..... I will refrain from quoting Mercola.

The fact remains that this excess influx of calcium (and especially those who are marginal or depleted of IC Mg) will react adversely to the excitatory property of calcium overload and is hugely important for afibbers awareness.

Jackie

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Jackie
Carey - You continue to kill the messenger.... in this case, Mercola. I had not seen Dr. Pall's research announcement published anywhere else as "news" about the liberation of excess calcium resulting from EMFs... and was impressed that Mercola realized it was the research important..... I will refrain from quoting Mercola.

He's a messenger that needs killing. Where is Pall's research published? If Mercola is the only place you can find it, that's not a good sign. In fact, that's a very bad sign. Mercola is a liar and a fraud. If he published something and that's the only place it can be found, then I don't trust the information at all. For all I know he altered it or just flat made it up. Sorry, but I simply won't take a fraud like him at his word.

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The fact remains that this excess influx of calcium (and especially those who are marginal or depleted of IC Mg) will react adversely to the excitatory property of calcium overload and is hugely important for afibbers awareness.

Just because something seems like it might be clinically significant doesn't mean it is. Where is the peer reviewed published data showing that low-power EMR is harmful? I've seen this debate for years and so far nobody has demonstrated harm despite looking for it, and proponents of this theory still can't explain why low-power EMR is harmful while the much higher power EMR we're all exposed to since birth is not harmful. Sorry, but you need to show me some convincing evidence from a reputable, peer-reviewed source if you want to make the case for this. Telling people with afib that wifi and cell phones caused their afib or make it worse isn't helpful if it's not true, and so far you have no evidence that it is true.

To summarize, I don't think wifi, cell phones and other sources of low-power EMR are harmful or have any effect on afib, but I'm open to seeing credible evidence to the contrary.

Carey in my response to you on Sept 20, I gave you two links for Pall's study publications.... which apparently you didn't bother to note or read. Yet, you are continuing with this non-productive argument.

If you understand the basic biochemical/biophysical consequences of what that Ca influx means to membranes and tissues - specifically heart cells, then it is most obvious that can mean trouble. Certainly, you know by now the problem with intracellular magnesium deficiency and a calcium overload in heart tissue.

You have to be able to study with an open mind, the pros and cons in arguments of the differences between natural electromagetics and what man-made electropollution can mean in terms of biological interruptions and disturbances.
You have to be able to understand and then connect the dots.

Go to some of the links mentioned in the original report on Electropollution and read the data from those who are sharing their knowledge to help spare the unsuspecting public of the risks of electromagnetic radiation.

Jackie

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Jackie
Carey in my response to you on Sept 20, I gave you two links for Pall's study publications.... which apparently you didn't bother to note or read. Yet, you are continuing with this non-productive argument.

Pardon me for forgetting something you posted weeks ago. While I agree the argument is non-productive, I don't agree why.

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If you understand the basic biochemical/biophysical consequences of what that Ca influx means to membranes and tissues - specifically heart cells, then it is most obvious that can mean trouble. Certainly, you know by now the problem with intracellular magnesium deficiency and a calcium overload in heart tissue.

Can mean trouble and does mean trouble are two very different things in medicine. The papers you cited are reviews, largely speculative, and rely heavily on old studies. The fact that no one is citing those papers speaks volumes (1 citation). His papers push an agenda, they conflate multiple issues like cancer and depression, and those are huge red flags. It likely explains why no one is citing him.

Show me peer reviewed studies showing the clinical significance of EMR on cardiac function and we won't be having a non-productive debate. My problem is you're telling people this stuff is harmful if you have afib, and there is no actual evidence to support that claim. People with afib don't need to be told their afib is caused by cell phones and bluetooth. That is not helpful because we both know it won't make one bit of difference if they stop using them.

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You have to be able to study with an open mind, the pros and cons in arguments of the differences between natural electromagetics and what man-made electropollution can mean in terms of biological interruptions and disturbances.
You have to be able to understand and then connect the dots.

You know, I try to avoid lecturing you in a condescending tone. I would appreciate the same.

You have consistently ignored the point I've made repeatedly that we are bombarded 24/7 by both "natural" and man-made EMR. There is no actual difference. There are two measures of EMR: power and frequency, and both man-made and "natural" sources overlap heavily in both. Electromagnetic radiation is electromagnetic radiation. There's no difference between a 2.4 GHz radio signal from your wifi router and a 2.4 GHz signal from outer space, but if you insist on believing there is a difference then let's count how many sources of man-made EMR all of us are exposed to 24/7 from the day we're conceived:

Radio transmissions - Typically thousands of different frequencies at any given moment, both terrestrial and satellite.
TV transmissions - Typically a dozen or more in the suburbs, more in big cities.
Radio and TV receivers - However many you have nearby.
Radar - Dozens at least (weather, air traffic control, airplanes, military).
Cell towers - A handful within range in a city, maybe 1 or 2 in the countryside.
Cell phones - Hard to even estimate. In a small town or suburb probably thousands, easily millions in a big city.
Bluetooth - Anything with bluetooth within about 50 feet of you.
Wifi - Any wifi devices within a few hundred feet.
Misc - Microwave ovens, motion sensors... the list is long.

So where is the explosion of afib in the last 100 years from all those sources of man-made EMR? And that explosion should have multiplied exponentially in the last 50 years. See, that's the evidence no one seems to be able to find. Is there a concern with brain cancer, depression and so forth? Perhaps, but this is an afib forum, not a cancer or psychiatry forum. Please stick to sound science unless you make it very clear what you're posting is speculative, otherwise you're likely to have another unproductive argument with me.

Newton's inverse square law applies.
I have no idea if perhaps certain frequencies resonate with something in our make up or not. It is probably a good idea to apply the precautionary principle with some of the electronic equipment, i. e. don't hold a cell phone to your ear for extended periods. It certainly can be shown that there is a warming effect and perhaps worse?
Devra Davis has done some searching on this subject (went to one of her lectures at Melbourne Uni)

While it is true that we can't escape EMRs i think it's a good idea not to sit on the microwave (which we don't have)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2017 11:02PM by Joe.

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Joe
Newton's inverse square law applies.
I have no idea if perhaps certain frequencies resonate with something in our make up or not. It is probably a good idea to apply the precautionary principle with some of the electronic equipment, i. e. don't hold a cell phone to your ear for extended periods. It certainly can be shown that there is a warming effect and perhaps worse?
Devra Davis has done some searching on this subject (went to one of her lectures at Melbourne Uni)

While it is true that we can't escape EMRs i think it's a good idea not to sit on the microwave (which we don't have)

I completely agree with this. Common sense I won't argue with.

Found this an interesting observation:
Heart Rate Variability and Atrial Fibrillation Hans R. Larsen MSc ChE

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The link between exposure to electromagnetic radiation (EMF) and HRV is still controversial.
Some studies have found a link while others have not. Researchers at the Midwest Research
Institute in Kansas City have found that changes in HRV may occur when exposure to
electromagnetic fields is combined with stress[23]. Does this mean that your HRV could change
if you sit in front of your computer screen while under stress? I used to get very anxious after
using my regular desktop computer for a couple of hours. Several years ago I replaced the
monitor with a LCD monitor, and since then, I have experienced no problems at all. The LCD
monitor emits no radiation and it does not flicker either. I highly recommend it.

Well, the whole article is interesting. Especially the breathing techniques. I mentioned that to the team of doctors who saw me when i was in hospital (about 2 years ago). A young doctor piped up saying that there is a relationship but he was shut down by a senior doctor who said that breathing techniques have nothing to do with afib.

Yes, Joe. Unless the physician has done extra certification training in functional, integrative, restorative type medicine, chances are those suggestions...and especially from a patient... are (unfortunately) dismissed. However, there's a huge number of physicians now who have gone beyond the traditional medical training and are helping many who had given up hope for many ailments often rooted in nutritional deficiencies and imbalances so routine, traditional testing misses the diagnoses.

You're correct, though, the HRV report is relevant and breathing techniques can help. In my early AF years, I took classes in the Buteyko Eucapnic breathing technique which was helpful in reducing my stress load from work and to relax at bedtime as well as when I would start an AF event as well. It's helpful to have that or the EFT or Tapping technique to rely on immediately to help reduce the anxiety and all.

I'll be adding to this post on the excess IC calcium consequences soon.

Jackie

Joe -

Following are some links to studies and reports that you may find interesting if you’d like to pursue this topic as it relates to potentials for arrhythmia and other consequences of Electropollution:


[scientists4wiredtech.com]
- more details on Dr. Martin Pall’s research findings on biological changes and health effects from EMFs…
Specifically #3 which states

“ Cardiac effects influencing the electrical control of the heart, including changes in ECGs, producing arrhythmias, changes that can be life threatening. “

See also:

Sci Rep. 2015; 5: 14914.
Published online 2015 Oct 12. doi: 10.1038/srep14914
PMCID: PMC4601073
Polarization: A Key Difference between Man-made and Natural Electromagnetic Fields, in regard to Biological Activity
Dimitris J. Panagopoulos,a,1,2,3 Olle Johansson,4 and George L. Carlo5

For a helpful explanation of the affect on the body.

In the present study, we analyze the role of polarization in the biological activity of Electromagnetic Fields (EMFs)/Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR). All types of man-made EMFs/EMR in contrast to natural EMFs/EMR - are polarized. Polarized EMFs/EMR can have increased biological activity, due to:

1) Ability to produce constructive interference effects and amplify their intensities at many locations.

2) Ability to force all charged/polar molecules and especially free ions within and around all living cells to
oscillate on parallel planes and in phase with the applied polarized field. Such ionic forced -oscillations exert additive electrostatic forces on the sensors of cell membrane electro-sensitive ion channels, resulting in their irregular gating and consequent disruption of the cell’s electrochemical balance. These features render man-made EMFs/EMR more bioactive than natural non - ionizing EMFs/EMR.

This explains the increasing number of biological effects discovered during the past few decades to be induced by man-made EMFs, in contrast to natural EMFs in the terrestrial environment which have always been present throughout evolution, although human exposure to the latter ones is normally of significantly higher intensities/energy and longer durations.

Thus, polarization seems to be a trigger that significantly increases the probability for the
initiation of biological/health effects


Also:
List of 142 Reviews on Non-thermal Effects of Microwave/Intermediate Frequency EMFs
By Martin L. Pall

“Among the scientific Reviews documenting these various non-thermal health effects
are 142 that follow. Each of these reviews cites at least a dozen primary literature
citations showing non-thermal effects, with many citing 100 or more going up to the
3rd reference which cites over 1000 such citations. It can be seen from this that the
primary literature citations supporting the existence of various non-thermal health
effects cited in these reviews go into several thousands.

This list is not and is not intended to be a list of all important such reviews.
However, it gives some measure of the size of the literature that contradicts
the industry contention that there are no non-thermal effects of microwave frequency EMFs.”

Source: [ehtrust.org]

Jackie

Thank you Jackie!
I listened to Dr Pall's talk. He is right, a lot of it goes over my head but there is enough to show the non thermal effects of EMFs, and in particular the pulsing ones.
Interesting him mentioning that magnesium helps to mitigate EMF exposure effects - if i understood him correctly.