Ophthalmic/Vagal connection?

Ladies!!!! Here's one I've never heard discussed. Maybe it's just me. I rarely wear any eye-makeup because of this. If I get up close to the mirror and brush on eyeshadow, I become soooo dizzy, everything actually turns black and I have an instant wave of nausea and have to bend over and catch my breath. I have to stop, which makes it hard to do the eyebrows, then shadow and mascara. I get too dizzy and have to stop several times. I'm giving you the worst scenario here, but I get dizzy in varying degrees from slightly dizzy to things turning black and feeling near syncope.

I used to have a neighbor who was an ophthalmic surgeon and I once asked her if the eyeball was innervated by vagus nerve, and she said that it was. She did say that she had never heard of what I experience. I have never actually passed out, but I have thought that if I didn't stop when I did, that I would have. If it is vagal nerve stimulation, then that means that I am probably having pauses.

Just wondered if this happens to anyone else. Hey guys, you can just try it experimentally!!!!! Wouldn't you think that I would NEVER put on eye makeup? Well guess what? The price we pay........ Powder and paint makes a girl what she ain't.

Tammy Faye Baker

No one has ever experienced this? Just me? Any ideas, anyone?

Hi, Pam
I am allergic to eye make up, so usually let that part of my face go unadorned.

But, I am interested in what you say about the connection between the eyes and vagus nerve.

Can you be more specific about what you think is happening in your case and in general? Is it because you are leaning forward or up close to the mirror or staring hard, light in your eyes, etc.? How can we relate this to stimulation of the vagus nerve or vice versa?

Carol

Pam,

Not much help I'm afraid, but I have DEFINATELY read somewhere that the vagus nerve controls the dilation of the pupil - can't remember whether it dilates it or vice versa........

Mike F.

Mike: I don't know either, whether it constricts or dilates, but my GUESS is that it dilates. Couldn't you just try on a little eyeshadow, just to see?????
Thanks for your post. If you find out anything else, I'de love to hear it.

Carol: Cardiologists always ask me if I am tipping my head way back, then it might be neck pressure on the carotid sinus/vagus nerve. I have known of people having hypersensitive carotid sinus syndrome, who will pass out in the shower from tipping the head back, and the force of the spray on the neck. I think that I might have that, because I have passed out in the shower before, in just such a stance. I have often gotten very dizzy while shampooing my hair, and had to squat down in the shower. Once I actually had to run out of the shower, soaking wet, with shampoo in my hair and dive on my bed. This is the same sensation, but it comes on when I swipe the eyeshadow wand across my closed eyelid. It also happens when I put on mascara. Perhaps it is pressure on the carotid sinus, because it also happens when I am in my car trying to back out of the driveway, or a parking space, and cranke my head around looking for traffic. If there is traffic coming, and I hold that stance for more than a few seconds, I get very dizzy.

I rarely drive since my stroke. I'm afraid to. If I go out it's just like 1/2 mile to the nearest grocery store, post office of gas station. I rarely try to put on any makeup anymore either. My sweatheart husband tells me I look better without it anyway!!!! How kind.

Ideas??

Pam

PS: If you folks would like, I'll be glad to post a message when I plan on backing out of my driveway!!

Pam,

Back in the Spring, I posted that I often went into AFIB from talking too much. Some said they did as well - and a few thought we were all looney tunes.

Since then, I have analyzed my posture when I talk (like the Alexander Technique) and found that I often lean my head forward when I speak. If done for prolonged periods, it leads to a very stiff neck. And AFIB.

For a time after the post, I decided I must find speaking stressful. (Talking has been shown to raise blood pressure.) And THAT led to the AFIB. Now what you wrote about head tipping (admitted the other way, but nevertheless) has me wondering. Maybe the AFIB had nothing to do with talking at all - but tipping my head forward, and aggravating my vagus nerve. Just another reason to fix my posture, I guess.

BillB
48;A;2000

Bill B: There is definately something called hypersensitive carotid sinus syndrome. Your carotid sinus in your neck is a sensitive vagal receptor. If I am sitting in my living room and crank my head around to talk to someone, I can get dizzy. Since vagal stimulation causes bradycardia or pauses, you could assum you have compensatory PACs and then possibly afib.

When I worked in Cardiology, at one point I worked directly for an invasive cardiologist and was with him the whole day, including hospital rounds. We were called, on a couple of occasions to OB at the hospital, to the delivery room where sometimes during delivery the mother would begin to have sinus pauses. Often this would happen when they put a clamp on her cervix. I found out that in a woman, the most sensitive vagal receptor she has is in her cervix!!! When they removed the clamp, the pauses ceased and she was fine. Well, thinking back, when my son was born 33 years ago, I had a friend who was an LPN in the delivery room. I was only 18 and remember very little, but she told me that my heart stopped. I never believed her, and thought she was just trying to be dramatic and bring attention to herself; but I believe it now. I think some of us have entire sensitive vagal systems. I do have SSS and am supposed to get a pacemaker, but I am very afraid of that, having a history of several medical disasters.

I think your idea is a very good possibility.

Pam

Pam contact me by email before you get a pacemaker

Pam and Bill,
Does it look like posture, that is, head forward posture, and not an eye factor may be a trigger here? I think I posed the question on the BB of a connection between posture and afib a while back.

I know that my head is often held forward for hours at a time when I am working at the computer. Also, I am tall and have a long (swan like, of course!) neck, so I am inclined to hold my head forward when working.

How might this possibly relate to the position of the head and neck when lying down at night and the nocturnal aspect of vagal afib?

Carol

FWIW, I too have a head forward posture and have had problems with a stiff neck but have never made any connection between that and Afib. My Chiropractor is manipulating that area with regards to affecting my AF but so far no improvment.

Adrian (not so swanlike, more like a turkey)

Another looney tuner here too (-: I have a head forward posture too. I'm 6'4" and have on and off over the years had a chiro do some manipulation on my neck when it goes into a kind of muscle spasm and pulls itself out of line for 2/3 days - I've heared the specific condition referred to as a 'wry neck'. My T4 and T5 verts have also caused me problems on and off - the last visit I made to a chiro was about 12 months ago. I'll have another soon for maintenance purposes.

Mike F.

Pam - when I was still working, one of my patients with a heart condition from diabetes told me she was unable to raise her arms to style her hair.

She related all the symptoms you describe. She had the ultrasound diagnostics for blocked carotid arteries.... yes there was blockage..... she had that surgically corrected and was able to function without the dizziness.

Just one incidence, but you might consider having the ultrasound evaluation.

Actually, there were two patients, now that I think about it. One had emergency carotid cleanout and was fine.


Jackie

Thanks everyone for your ideas. It happens that I have and event recorder here from having had a syncopal episode in early October. I think I'll put it on and then try to induce some symptoms, perhaps putting on eyemekeup. Get dizzy, push the button and record. Since they are set for 30 seconds in memory, I should be able to play it back and listen to the blip blip for a pause. Or I could just transmit it telephonically to the lab.

Jackies Carotid idea is another thought, except that I know the docs have listened at my carotids for bruites (sp), but I will bring it up again.

Again, thanks to all, and,
Be well,
Pam