From 1% AF to 100% bigeminy in 1 ablation (opinions?)

Hey all,

Like many here, I started here after the onset of my AF, a little less than 2 years ago. Yes, I was one of many lurkers on this (extremely helpful) site, and the information here allowed me to gain some control over my AF. A short summary is below:

1. My AF started suddenly in April 2015, and with a heavy AF burden from the start (25% AF, paroxysmal with 1-3 hour duration, mixed vagal and adrenergic). This was, ironically, after significant lifestyle changes that brought my weight down from 208 to 170 (I’m 6’ 0” tall), significantly increased my fitness, and eliminated my need for blood pressure meds (an ACE inhibitor). I’m currently 51 years old and otherwise in excellent health.

2. I eliminated any systemic heart disease possibilities with a cardiologist—my echo and other tests were 100% normal.

3. After learning about The Plan here, magnesium/potassium/etc supplementation allowed me to change my AF to an occasional vagal episode (1-2 hours every month or so). I’ve continued this supplementation to this day.

4. I spent the next 2 years systematically trying everything I could to mitigate the AF, with some success:

a. Checked for H. Pylori: nope
b. Checked for thyroid problems: nope
c. Checked for pheochromocytoma: nope
d. Tried DHEA and pregnenelone supplementation: if anything, it made AF worse
e. Tested high for lead and mercury and did a couple of 10-week rounds of DMSA chelation: chelation always triggered AF, but didn’t have any positive effect
f. Tried Hawthorn, motherwort, arjuna, cordyceps (the herbal route): no significant effect.
g. I had my single root canal removed and replaced with an implant: nope, not that. Holy moly, what an adventure that was. Pricey, too.
h. Tried sauna: again, no significant effect
i. Tried chiropractic: nope, didn’t help.
j. Tried prolotherapy on neck and c-spine: again, sorry.
k. Tried Chinese medicine (wenxin keli): again, no significant effect
l. Tried high dose iodine (up to 20mg per day via Lugols): may have had an effect, or may have been confounded by the next step below, since they started at the same time—but, after starting iodine, I had 168 days of NSR.
m. Tried berberine (500mg, 3x/day): I suspect this is the main thing that kept me in NSR for almost 6 months, but again, it’s confounded with iodine.

5. When the berberine and iodine began losing effectiveness in December, I tried various dosages/combos, but that didn’t help.

So, let’s talk about my ablation.

By late December, I got to a point where I felt an ablation was the right thing to do—my AF had gone from an occasional irritation (1-2 hours every 1-3 months) to something much more burdensome (2-3 hours every 1-2 weeks…or more). I’d seen Dr. Natale in August, shortly after I’d started the berberine and iodine supplementation, then postponed an ablation with him after the berberine and iodine seemed to be working. So, I called his office again and got scheduled for March 8, 2017.

So, on March 6, I went off to Austin for a Dr. Natale ablation. This was done with the usual high standard of care I’d come to expect from reading other experiences on this site, and I came out of the ablation in the typical fast-but-stable NSR. Dr. Natale commented that my ablation was slightly more complicated than a typical PVI, and mentioned that it was 43 minutes of RF. (I don’t have the actual ablation report yet.)

After some digestive issues (gastroparesis, not a lot of fun), I thought everything was going great—until about 96 hours ago, when I went into 100% atrial bigeminy. This is a constant and unrelenting thing that feels like heavy bradycardia (the paired beats feel like 40-50 BPM, even though the actual rate is 80-100.) I’m short of breath, exercise is not a lot of fun (and doesn’t resolve the bigeminy), and restful sleep is difficult.

I’ve never heard of this complication before, or at least not at this level, so I thought I’d see if anyone here has experienced this. I’m working with Dr. Natale’s nurses, of course, but so far it’s been, “Try going back on Multaq.” We’ll see what happens from here.

So, I’m wondering: has anyone had an experience like this? Does this sound like a normal blanking period glitch? Should I be concerned? I have no problem at all with having a second ablation to address this problem.

Any insight is appreciated, and of course I’ll keep everyone updated on how this works out. And, if anyone has questions about my adventures with supplements/testing/etc, I’d be happy to answer them.

Hi JKAF,

Welcome! I'm glad to see you have moved from 'lurker' to 'active poster' status ... you obviously have the investigative nature to fit right in here :-)!

Have you been taking the high dose Iodine and/or Berberine during the blanking period or even in the month or two leading up to the ablation?? Keep in mind the while both can have some salutary anti-arrhythmic effects, it is not wise to mix either, especially in a big dose of iodine, with MULTAQ and I would be super careful taking berberine with Eliquis or any real blood thinner.

Berberine in 250mg dose two to three times a day can do wonders for lowering high serum glucose and help counter metabolic syndrome and even in some cases help reverse type 2 diabetes .. assuming all the proper diabetic reducing life style risk factor managing good habits are fully embraced as well. But Berberine in these doses can also act as modest blood thinner. And it also has some moderate Type-III type anti-arrhythmic agent properties similar to Sotolol.

I trust you are not taking Berberine with Multaq and/or Eliquis, but it you are please stop the Berberine Pronto!

Having even up to a couple weeks of actual non-stop flutter/tachycardia happens during the blanking period. Since you are 100% bigeminy (for those that aren't familiar with this term, it is an annoying ectopic rhythm with a PVC every other beat alternating with a Sinus beat in between. It's not so common to see it be this steady for 96 hours straight, but not unheard of either. You are still early in the blanking period too, in fact smack dab in the zone when various blanking period flippies are most likely to occur.

Your NP suggested you go 'back on Multaq', so did they give you Multaq after the ablation for a period of time and you stopped already or they told you to stop before the bigeminy nuisance started?

Just trying to figure out when you started/stopped Multaq and if you were, or are, on Iodine and/or Berberine as well since your ablation??

Also, please ask Shirley, Curry or Carrie (I assume one of them is your NP .. or Nurse Navigator as they are called at St Davids ) to fax you a copy of your Ablation report ASAP.
Once you get it if you PM me with your cell number and bounce me a copy of the report, I'll be happy to connect with you and review exactly what all was required in your ablation.

In the meantime, don't worry, it will likely pass before long, and if an actual AFIB or flutter/tachycardia occurs, of course let your NP know and me as well if you wish and we can take it one step at a time along the way.

A 96 hours (Plus by now?) run of bigeminy is not an indication that you will need a touch up procedure by itself. Im not saying you should, or need to, stop Lugols Iodine or berberine for good. But during this blanking period in particular and especially when taking Multaq or other AAR drug, you are best advised not to bring too many cooks into the kitchen at once.

Again, if you wish to discuss this issue in more detail, PM me with your cell and time zone and I'll try to ring during day time hours when I can.

Best wishes,
Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2017 01:37AM by Shannon.

Shannon,

Thanks for the fast response, and the encouraging words.

With respect to the berberine and iodine, I've been off of the berberine for a month before the procedure (since it might interfere with Eliquis metabolism), and I had stopped the high-dose iodine after the ablation. I'm currently just doing the typical magnesium (taurate, total 800mg/day, no bowel issues), potassium (2g from chloride), carnitine (1g) arginine (1.8g), plus C (4g) and a multi--which I have run for years.

And yep, I'm in touch with Curry and Shirley...probably more than they'd like. I really don't want to be "that guy" who wastes all of their time for paranoid stuff. I'm trying. With respect to "going back on Multaq," Dr. Natale had recommended Multaq for a couple of months after the ablation, but I'd had such severe gastric issues the first week after, we decided to stop it. Now it turns out the gastric issues from the Multaq are minor or not even present--it was probably just some vagus nerve stunning from the ablation. My stomach wasn't emptying quickly for about a week, which is really, ah, disconcerting and uncomfortable.

I'll get a copy of the ablation report and contact you. I appreciate the offer for more discussion. So far, still stuck in bigeminy...this would be 108 hours.

Thanks again,
Jason

2g potassium? Isn't that a bit high? That would be about 20 tablets if you are using the OTC brands. Roughly 50 mEq if I did the math right. OTC stuff is not likely extended release like the prescription KCl.

Have you discussed the KCl with the EP staff?

Yes, Welcome... Jason. I certainly hope your heart settles down shortly.

Thanks for your very detailed report as well as your following report listing the supplements you take and amounts. Keep in mind that you don't have to stop with 800 mg of magnesium unless that's your bowel tolerance max. You could try pushing up a bit more and with time, you may maximize your levels at a higher dosage. Worth a try because too much potassium (if magnesium is too low) doesn't help. Meanwhile, try cutting back some on the potassium

Also... consider supplementing separately with taurine. Taurine can be especially useful for those who are relatively optimized in the intracellular electrolytes as it acts as an osmoregulator and helps with the balance.

Also, have you added in other energy factors such as Coenzyme Q10, and d-ribose in addition to carnitine?

If you haven't had the ExaTest by Intracellular Diagnostics, and since you've ruled out so many other contributors, it would be helpful to know if you are able to absorb into the cell those core electrolytes that stabilize the electrical system. Some people can take a lot of supplements but because of damage to the outer cell walls that where receptor sites are located, the nutrients can't gain access and therefore, can't work. Here's the website for Exatest: [www.exatest.com]

I'm also curious if you've had the Cardiac or High Sensitivity C-reactive Protein test to determine levels of inflammation. If not, that would be an important marker to know because of the obvious connection between inflammation and a calm heart. After your blanking period, it would be a good consideration.

Also... check the label of your multi for the calcium content. Afibbers should not be taking additional calcium in supplemental form but rather rely on healthy food sources in limited amounts because of the excitatory property of calcium and the tendency for Ca to dominate over Mg. There can also be other culprits for afibbers in many Multi's. If you provide the brand, we can check it for acceptability.

As for foods, be sure you avoid artificial sweeteners such as aspartame (Splenda) and similar and any processed foods likely to contain MSG and/or a high (hidden) sodium content.

Be very conservative for now with the iodine supplementation.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Best to you,
Jackie

Quote
wolfpack
2g potassium? Isn't that a bit high? That would be about 20 tablets if you are using the OTC brands. Roughly 50 mEq if I did the math right. OTC stuff is not likely extended release like the prescription KCl.

Have you discussed the KCl with the EP staff?

Yep, I use powder 1g elemental potassium, 2x/day, have been doing it for two years. I could certainly cut it down and see what happens, but I've already done the dance with different types of potassium, cutting out supplements altogether, etc--though that was before the ablation.

Potassium was the only thing that could cut short an AF episode, pre-ablation. But yeah, probably time to experiment once again.

Jackie,

Thanks for the response, and will definitely try cutting back on the K. I can also increase magnesium, as I am not at bowel tolerance (I have great bowel tolerance for taurate and malate, less so for glycinate.

With respect to other questions:

1. I've had an Exatest, I did it early in the AF process. I was solidly in the normal range for all electrolytes.
2. I've done HS-CRP tests, they're very low (0.2 last test).
3. Multi has zero calcium. I've done extremely low calcium diets for a while with no positive results (I'm currently only getting about 300 mg of calcium a day from food, in any case.) The brand is Pure Encapsulations Multi T/D, chosen as I am not a great methylator per genetic testing.
4. I don't use artificial sweeteners and avoid pretty much all processed foods (I'm a bit of a foodie, and I cook a lot, so I'm extremely picky about quality, and tend to go organic when possible. My diet is relatively low carb (100-150g/day), and I eat fruits, nuts, green veggies literally every day, but I'm not a vegan/vegetarian nor keto diet guy. I've tried multi-day fasting and keto diets (fasting up to 4 days, keto for 2 weeks), but both of these tactics made my AF go nuts.
5. Some disambiguation of the berberine and some other test results: I'm not diabetic (my last A1C was 5.4 before berberine), and I am no stranger to ordering my own tests for myself. This is how I discovered that I had a relatively high ferritin level (460ng/ml) and went through a year and a half of blood donations to bring it down into normal range (last test was 32). My cholesterol tends to high, but with very good triglycerides. Last test was 208 total, 65 HDL, 55 tri. They tried to put me on statins a while back, I told them to pound sand.
6. Some more history: the AF started after I decided to get in shape and fix my high blood pressure (discovered when my dad thought his machine was broken.) In short, via diet and exercise, I was able to go from 208 lbs and 155/100 typical blood pressure to 165-170 lbs and 110/70 typical blood pressure without drugs. (I did take an ACE inhibitor while I was making the lifestyle changes.)
7. Iodine and berberine are hard off, and I forgot, yes, I am taking Ubiqinol 200mg/day and I've used ribose as a sweetener daily for some time (typically 1-2 teaspoons.)

Hope this helps flesh out the story a bit. I forget parts of it myself from time to time!

All the best,
Jason



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2017 01:53PM by JKAF.

Quote
JKAF
Jackie,

Thanks for the response, and will definitely try cutting back on the K. I can also increase magnesium, as I am not at bowel tolerance (I have great bowel tolerance for taurate and malate, less so for glycinate.

With respect to other questions:

1. I've had an Exatest, I did it early in the AF process. I was solidly in the normal range for all electrolytes.
2. I've done HS-CRP tests, they're very low (0.2 last test).
3. Multi has zero calcium. I've done extremely low calcium diets for a while with no positive results (I'm currently only getting about 300 mg of calcium a day from food, in any case.) The brand is Pure Encapsulations Multi T/D, chosen as I am not a great methylator per genetic testing.
4. I don't use artificial sweeteners and avoid pretty much all processed foods (I'm a bit of a foodie, and I cook a lot, so I'm extremely picky about quality, and tend to go organic when possible. My diet is relatively low carb (100-150g/day), and I eat fruits, nuts, green veggies literally every day, but I'm not a vegan/vegetarian nor keto diet guy. I've tried multi-day fasting and keto diets (fasting up to 4 days, keto for 2 weeks), but both of these tactics made my AF go nuts.
5. Some disambiguation of the berberine and some other test results: I'm not diabetic (my last A1C was 5.4 before berberine), and I am no stranger to ordering my own tests for myself. This is how I discovered that I had a relatively high ferritin level (460ng/ml) and went through a year and a half of blood donations to bring it down into normal range (last test was 32). My cholesterol tends to high, but with very good triglycerides. Last test was 208 total, 65 HDL, 55 tri. They tried to put me on statins a while back, I told them to pound sand.
6. Some more history: the AF started after I decided to get in shape and fix my high blood pressure (discovered when my dad thought his machine was broken.) In short, via diet and exercise, I was able to go from 208 lbs and 155/100 typical blood pressure to 165-170 lbs and 110/70 typical blood pressure without drugs. (I did take an ACE inhibitor while I was making the lifestyle changes.)
7. Iodine and berberine are hard off, and I forgot, yes, I am taking Ubiqinol 200mg/day and I've used ribose as a sweetener daily for some time (typically 1-2 teaspoons.)

Hope this helps flesh out the story a bit. I forget parts of it myself from time to time!

All the best,
Jason

Yes, I would experiment a bit with lower K levels to see if that improves your bigeminal rhythms.

As for BMI, you can safely ignore what the government says. 6'0" and 170 lbs is actually kind of low. That's where I was when my AF started. You might actually be a little malnourished at those levels, which contributes to arrythmia. I've found that low blood sugar will trigger PACs in my case.

Again, Jason, thanks for your detailed and prompt response. Yes, you certainly have done your research and implementation of important 'self-help' protocols. Good for you!!! Glad you have refused the statins as cholesterol has important functions in the body. I checked the ingredients of your Multi and it's a well-rounded support combination and glad there is no additional calcium. And, glad you are taking the CoQ and ribose.

I think that if you can increase the Mg dosing gradually over a couple weeks time (but... stop the increases if you have bowel issues); then, along with a slightly lower dose of potassium, that should be a good combination. Some have found they can increase magnesium to surprisingly high levels w/o the bowel issues so it pays to experiment. Go up slowly, though, as diarrhea is counterproductive.

As Wolfpack mentions, low blood sugar (LBS) can promote PACs or outright arrhythmia because of the accompanying adrenaline surge when the body becomes stressed as a result of the LBS. It's often a rebound effect from eating too many starchy carbs without enough protein and fat to slow down the carb metabolism. You mention your carb intake as relatively low... but actually, low carb is less than 50. So assess your carb quality... if mostly from fiber, that's one thing; but if from starchy carb type food, then reduce those significantly. Consider using a quality Omega 3 fish oil at least 3 - 4 grams daily, divided doses, to help in this area as well. Use a moleclularly distilled pure product such as that from Nordic Naturals or Carlson's. The liquid is easy to add if your meals fall short on healthy fat intake for blood glucose stability.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Jackie

Quote
wolfpack
2g potassium? Isn't that a bit high? That would be about 20 tablets if you are using the OTC brands. Roughly 50 mEq if I did the math right. OTC stuff is not likely extended release like the prescription KCl.

I took 2-4 g/day potassium for years (and as high as 8g of the bicarb) - not that I'm suggesting any this for others. I used powders (bicarb, citrate, chloride or gluconate), not 99 mg tablets. I don't now as I find my serum potassium stays right where I want it without supplementation.

Interestingly, potassium chloride powder will trigger the scanner at the airport. When I traveled with it, I took to putting it in its own basket so they wouldn't have to dig through my bag for it.

Very cool! Thank you all for the input. I'll discontinue the potassium and up the magnesium for a while and see how it goes.

To be clear, I'm not disappointed in the ablation route, and if a touchup is required, I'm totally fine with that. I've convinced myself that there are no easy answers on the natural/alternative side.

I'll keep you apprised of what happens. Currently still in bigeminy.

Just a quick update: still in bigeminy. Also had a run of tachycardia last night (140BPM) and some trigeminy after exercise today. All of these are new for me. Never had any of that pre-ablation. Fingers crossed it will pass.

Quote
wolfpack
As for BMI, you can safely ignore what the government says. 6'0" and 170 lbs is actually kind of low. That's where I was when my AF started. You might actually be a little malnourished at those levels, which contributes to arrythmia. I've found that low blood sugar will trigger PACs in my case.

Have to say that I was fit (doing high altitude - 14,000' - endurance races) but 6'0" and 205#'s when afib first arrived. Now, I'm 170 and don't consider myself particularly thin (or malnourished) at around 23 BMI - 15% body fat. I just completed a very detailed analysis of my diet to give to an Aussie who is developing a nutrient optimizer. I tracked all my intake with a gram scale (which is a pain) for 14 days. There were 69 different food items in my input. 98% of all the intake was from ingredients and 85-90% were consumed raw. In comparison to RDA's, I was deficient in vitamin D and B12 on intake. I track these in serum and supplement for. The analysis is detailed: by amino acid, types of fat, minerals and vitamins.

While I agree that blood sugar can be an issue for some, being mildly ketogenic, it isn't for me. I fast 22 hours a day and have for several years. I always exercise fasted. In December we fasted for 7 days, with my glucose dropping to 50 mg/dL and ketones in the 5's & 6's mmol/L (my wife's dropped to 38 mg/dL with ketones as high as 7.4). On the 6th day, I did a strength and tabata workout achieving the same metrics that I normally do. I've trained my system to fuel switch (from carbs to fat/ketones) with ease over the last 7 1/2 years.

My diet averaged 2167 cal/day, 122 grams of carbs (51g were fiber), 175 g fat and 52 grams protein (according to Cronometer.com). I maintained mild ketosis, with 12 hour fasting serum ketone values ranging from 0.7-1.8 mmol/L.

We are all different and I my approach is not the norm, but being at 170#'s is not a bad thing for my afib.

George

George,

I've been following your saga for some time, and it's been very helpful to me in my decision to go with an ablation.

It sounds like our weight and diet are not especially different (on a macronutrient level, anyway), and my experience when fasting is also similar in terms of where my blood sugar and ketones were heading (I've only done up to 4 days, many days I do 18-hour intermittent). The key difference is that I've come at it from a sedentary lifestyle (now moderately active, doing strenuous walks/hikes and standup paddleboarding 7 days per week, thanks to the mountains, lakes, and ocean in the area (and a much more active wife). While you've been able to maintain significant control over your condition, mine deteriorated rapidly in December, after almost 6 months of remission.

After re-reading your posts, I decided it was time to go the ablation route, rather than pursue any more lifestyle mods, because I didn't think I'd have your rigor in keeping with the program. Although I'm currently going through (what seems like) more than the usual blanking period issues, I'm not regretting the decision. Currently I'm running a mix of trigeminy (mainly), quadgeminy, and having some brief runs of NSR, so things appear to be moving in the right direction.

I've now found my bowel tolerance for magnesium (about 1.6g, it looks like), so I've backed off a bit to 1.2g, dropped potassium, added fish oil, and we'll see where that goes.

Thanks again (to everyone) for all the input.

All the best,
Jason

Hey all,

Just a quick update: I'm back in NSR, at least at rest. Things still get a little out of hand with strenuous exercise (trigeminy, bigeminy), but that also appears to be slowly abating. Hopefully I'll be able to post soon that even if you have some bizarre stuff happen during the blanking period, all will be well.

All the best,
Jason

Jackie:

Where can a guy have the Cardiac or High Sensitivity C-reactive Protein test done? I've never had one done. I'd be curious to know what my levels are.

And just out of curiosity, if it shows your levels are high what can you do? It seems this would require some serious lifestyle changes

Travis

Travis - Doctors can order. It's not an uncommon test. Unfortunately, it's not typically considered a routine preventive but as a very important marker of inflammation, you'd think it would be one they'd want to monitor.

Antioxidants help reduce inflammation and of course dietary choices. Vitamins such as C and D, keeping magnesium levels optimized, plenty of pure Omega 3 fish oils, curcumin, Boswellia, ginger are all useful.

Unfortunately, doctors will prescribe a statin to lower inflammation.

Jackie

Travis,

My original HS-CRP tests were ordered by my integrative physician. Any MD should be able to order the test. I've also ordered my own through places like DirectLabs and RequestATest. Mine went from 0.6 to 0.2 with supplementation and diet (prior to ablation.) I'll check it again once I'm well past the blanking period.

All the best,
Jason

My husband Dave, had (diagnosed) a-fib for about 10 years before we discovered this excellent website, when Hans ran the website, and this website taught us to add supplements which, for about 10 years, did great things--stopping any a-fib episodes quickly, that Dave intermittently had (paroxysmal type of a-fib). The supplements were Magnesium glycinate (now, after his ablation--see below-- Dave takes the malate form of magnesium), food sources of Potassium such as coconut water or raisins or V8 juice (tomatoes are naturally rich in potassium), Taurine (not taking Taurine at the present time), fish oil, CoQ10, a tiny bit of an iodine source (seaweed called Dulse), etc.

Within the last year, Dave's a-fib increased in severity and frequency, so finally, Dave decided to get "ablated" by Dr. Tom Svinarich, M.D. (EP/Electrophysiologist), in the Lakewood, CO area, and this 3 1/2 hour ablation (including an ablation for atrial flutter) was done on Nov. 21, 2016.

Dave was doing pretty well after this double ablation, but lately, he too, like Jason, began to have disturbing BIGEMINI, etc. heart a-rhythmias.

A holter monitor showed a few PVC's, but the "medical murphy's law" shows that when NOT being monitored, apparently is when the worst irregularities happen, with one's pulse/heart rhythm!--so there's no "evidence" showing the bad episodes!

Dr. Svinarich was not concerned with these bigeminal episodes, (we saw him recently) but they are concerning to us, because Dave gets short of breath (dyspnea) sometimes, from these too often occurring irregular heart rhythms now, and, he becomes weak, when he does the same kind of physical exertions that formerly did NOT make him weak!

In addition, Dave's insurance, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield (!!**##!!--bleep bleep) suddenly (Jan. 1, 2017) forced Dave to change his insurance plan (Dave had no choice at all!) from a plan that covered Dr. Svinarich, to a plan that does NOT cover Dr. Svinarich--the very heart surgeon who had ablated Dave, on Nov. 21, 2016 !!

So, we are going to see a new EP/Electrophysiologist, namely Dr. Sri Sundaram, M.D., also in the Denver, CO area, and we will see him for the first time tomorrow (Mon. 4/24).

If we can find out tomorrow, what's going on with Dave's "bigeminy, etc.", I'll let you all know, in case it might be helpful to Jason and anyone else here.

One problem that I don't know the answer to, is that Dave was diagnosed by Dr. Svinarich's machine, as having moderate sleep apnea, but, Dave doesn't want to use CPAP, and he doesn't want to use a dental appliance.

Dave also wants to lose some weight, but he can't do a lot of heavy physical exercise, because it can bring on whatever the heart irregular rhythms are (bigeminy, etc.).

Dr. Svinarich had mentioned the Kardia Alivecor device, but there are mixed reviews, when I googled it. Anyone here use this EKG/ECG home device?

Any advice about any of the above, and about diagnosing and fixing/removing bigeminy, etc. about 5 months post ablation, is welcome!

P.S. He's also using holistic methods to fight a low grade prostate cancer, along with a very enlarged prostate. Not sure if either this situation &/or supplements he's taking for this, might be impacting his heart rhythm (supplements: zinc 50 mg. by mouth, once a day with food, to decrease enlarged prostate; Saw Palmetto, Pygeum, Nettle combo, to decrease too much testosterone; Reishi, Shitake, Maitake mushroom extract (anti-cancer); 3 organic apricot "kernels" daily, to fight cancer, etc. etc.

Sincerely, Carol (Dave's wife)
cell: 970-531-5000
[cantbreathesuspectvcd.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 01:11AM by Carol.

To cure Sleep Apnea with execises go to <http//www.sleepapneaexercise.com>.

Sam

P.S. Sorry, I seem to have lost the ability to make a clickable link! Just use Google.

Sam, have you tried these exercises yourself, for sleep apnea? I took a look at your link, and it does cost money.

I googled a bit more, and found a youtube video that shows a man doing some exercises that he claims can cure sleep apnea. Here's the youtube link I found: [www.youtube.com] (I sent this link to my husband's email, so he can try them too.)

What do you think?

Carol
cell: 970-531-5000
[cantbreathesuspectvcd.com]

Carol,

This should take you straight to the free exercises. <www.sleepsolutionsnw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/orofacial_exercises.pdf. >

I've used these but I was never positively diagnosed with apnea. They're well worth trying. I, for one, would not sleep a wink with CPAP.

Sam

Sam - I agree with you on the no sleep issue with CPAP.

Did you ever try Buteyko Breathing Technique?
Really good for overall health and sleep. [www.buteykobreathing.nz]

Jackie