Afib triggers

I have lone afib. I have approximately 2 episodes a year. I have been very diligent at taking my magnesium and vitamins daily. I think that this has helped. Yesterday however, I was out and stopped at Panda express. I ordered the mushroom chicken. Within 10 minutes of eating it, as I was driving, I went into full blown afib. I have not had it for 6 months. I took a metropolol immediately which brought my heart rate down, but I was in afib for 12 hours. I am wondering if the ingredients or the high amount of sodium in ithe brought on the afib. Has anyone else experienced this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 01:05PM by amyorca.

Hello and welcome… That’s unfortunate, but typically, when there is such a rapid connection to food intake and afib, it’s often found to be either the high sodium content of the meal or some flavor enhancers such as MSG that are routinely found in prepared foods.

The extra sodium, especially, if your intracellular levels of potassium are already low is virtually a guaranteed trigger for some afibbers. Keep in mind that while an optimized intracellular base of magnesium is crucial, the second part of that is also optimal potassium. But… it has to be in that order. Optimize Mg first, then continually be mindful of the potassium-to-sodium ratio inside the cells to help insure a calm heart. Potassium from foods is easy to get but not as easy with magnesium; thus the supplements. However, many afibbers find that using small amounts of supplemental potassium can be very useful as well. We always caution for both minerals, that patients should have healthy functioning kidneys.

With time, most afibbers decide to become highly selective about eating restaurant food for these reasons. When you do, it's best to eat as plainly as possible and avoid sauces that are likely to contain high sodium, flavorings, etc. There is also the Cardymeter testing device which helps monitor your potassium levels.

There are many past posts on the importance of potassium-to-sodium ratios… here’s one
[www.afibbers.org]

Cardymeter: [www.afibbers.org]

And go here for many more [www.afibbers.org]
And also do a online advanced search.

Jackie

Amyorca:

Jackie is of course correct. However, there are times when no matter what I think might be my triggers I don't get AF, then I will get AF when i have my trigger. The triggers don't always give me AF but when I get AF it is because of my trigger. So, AF is a very confusing malady, I say eat good food and if possible make it all yourself. I like Chinese food as well but I just make it myself, they put so much Soy sauce in their food, Soy isn't good for Thyroid problems which I have.

Liz

I try and eat healthy. I lost almost 100 lbs ib 2010 and have kept it off thru proper eating habits. I believe that some of us are just destined to be a "AFIBBER" because there are individuals on this forum who eat super healthy and still get AFIB and I know individuals who eat anything and have no heart or health issues.

I take magnesium and try to get in my potassium. I was doing this when from no where AFIB hit me for a 2nd time in April 2016 and I had a 2nd Ablation.

All I am saying is AFIB at times has no answers to why I "got it". Currently, I am doing great. Do the best you can. I asked Dr. Natale about some of the "triggers" talked about on this website such as laying on your left side. He does not believe this or many so called triggers.

I eat "Healthy" but I do falter at least 1x a week when I eat out with my family after Church. Where I live, We do not have that many choices; There is not a Whole foods or a store similar to that within a 120 mile radius of where I live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 04:37PM by smackman.

See Fran(cis) Ross's story <[www.afibbers.org] starting on page 4.

Fran was very sensitive to MSG and other additives. She used to post her ~14 years ago. When she figured out her afib, she decided to become a naturopathic doctor.

George

Thanks for your answers. I rarely eat processed food. I usually make a smoothie every day with kale, spinach bananas, hemp hearts etc. Plus I have been on a potassium supplement since I first started having afib. I never know why I get it. It seems different every time. It's almost like clockwork, every 6 months. But when it happens my heart goes up to 200 bpm, and once I get my heart rate down with metropolol or diltiazem I am usually in afib for 12 hrs. Thankfully I convert on my own. It is just so unnerving when it happens, I am trying to avoid it as much as possible. I am afraid to be alone in case it happens. It really has changed my level of comfort in my life. This forum has really helped me. I am going to be much more careful about the sodium.

Amyorca - Glad you don't often eat Panda Express foods... Now that you've elaborated a bit on your typical diet... if you use a lot of kale... be aware of this report on thallium toxicity and Kale consumption and the arrhythmia connection. Many people eat kale and don't have arrhythmia, but it's always good to know what's being reported. And in addition to the thallium factor, always be sure that your veggies are organic and USA grown to help eliminate the exposure to chemicals and pesticides. (imported veggies, even if organic, are fumigated at the border and then are no longer organic but the toxic residues remain and can be cumulative in the body).

Here's the link to a report last year [www.afibbers.org]

Be sure to read through all of the posts as there is additional elaboration.

Jackie

I never thought that kale would be bad for me. I started eating it after I got afib for magnesium. I guess I could grow my own. So frustrating what we are doing to our environment. No wonder there is so much cancer and other health issues.

Amy - The thallium content in kale is just one consideration. Also, kale is in the brassica family (called goitrogens) and are known to interfere with thyroid function....and influence arrhythmia, as well. Not in everyone, but for many. Light cooking of brassicas lessens that property. So that's another consideration.

Kale has a high affinity to accumulate thallium.... but the thallium has to get into soil in the first place...and apparently, that's not all that uncommon...depending on where the kale is grown. A report indicated common sources are
" nearby cement plants, oil drilling, smelting, most of all, in the ash that results from coal burning." So that drift can be far-reaching.

Jackie

I have had my thyroid checked a couple of times last year because I was wondering if that might be an issue with my afib. Each time the results came back as normal. I have also gone to acupuncture, which has helped a lot. I was having more afib occurrences before I started going to acupuncture and taking magnesium. Also went to a naturopath who started me on b vitamins. I strongly believe that my afib began with menopause. I have had hot flashes for 10 years now. Each time I have one I get palpitations or racing heart. I began having PACS at that time and then 3 years ago ended up in the er with my heart rate over 200bpm. I often wake up at night with my heart racing and then have a hot flash. Once the hot flash is over, my heart returns to normal. I am not able to take HRTS because I have antiphospholipid syndrome. Therefore I can't take anything with estrogenic properties. One Chinese medicine Dr. told me that my problem is with my parasympathetic nervous system. So far I can't link my afib events to any specific things. Each time it was brought on by something different. I take care of myself pretty well. I eat well for the most part, exercise regularly. I do have a lot of stress in my life and I have some anxiety which I deal with yoga and quiet time. I have received so much help from this forum, but still have much more to read. It is just so unnerving when it comes on so suddenly like the other day while I was driving.

Amy - what's "normal" on your tests. Can you list your test results? Often all that's done is a TSH and even that range is not narrow enough to catch something brewing.

I'll respond later to your other comments on hormones and especially stress...which was also my trigger as well.

Jackie

I don't completely understand the values, however the Dr said that all were normal. My TSH was 2.7, the T4 was 5.8. FSH was 68 and Estridiol was 10. If you know more than I do, I would definitely appreciate hearing. Thank you for your replies.

I woke up this morning very light headed with PACs. Took my regular 120 MG slow release diltiazem, helped the PACs, but still very light headed. I don't know what is going on. It is impossible to get into my Dr. because he is booked out 2 weeks and I can't afford to go to the er everytime I am not doing well. This is the 3rd time I have had this happen in the past two weeks.

Amy:

It also depends on the Lab values, tsh is usually 0.40-4.50, so your tsh is within the lab scale. T4 -- my lab values are 0.8-1.8 so either your lab values are a lot different than mine or your T4 is high.

Liz

Not sure, I am living in the states so maybe the values are different

Component Your Value Standard Range Flag
T4 5.8 ug/dL 4.2 - 11.7 ug/dL

Any;

Is that your free T4, that is quite a large range, if so, you are in the range towards the lower end. I live in the U.S. and I have never seen that big a range for free T4.

If you have low blood sugar, you can feel dizzy, I try to eat a snack about an hour before bedtime, I also take a piece of cheese and a glass of water besides my bed as I am prone to low blood sugar. You can get dizzy spells because of problems with your ears as well.

Liz

Free T4 1.02 ng/dL 0.70 - 1.48 ng/dL This test was taken in 2015. I am not sure the difference between T4 free and T4, they both say Thyroxine. But one says free.
I am pretty sure that it isn't low blood sugar. It feels like I am not getting enough blood circulation sometimes when I have PACS or afib. I guess that it could also be a bug of some kind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 11:01PM by amyorca.

Amy - I'll dig out the thyroid panel description from the test results my Functional Medicine MD orders that show the lab ranges... meanwhile... following is a writeup from that lab (Genova Diagnostics ).... While the TSH range guidelines were changed in 2003, some labs and often doctors still stick with the acceptable higher number which then allows for many hypothyroid patients to go untreated. Typically, they prefer to see the TSH around 2.0. It also measures the active or Free T3 and Free T4 hormone levels which Genova references as 'unbound.' I've found that most endocrinologists don't know what to do with an elevated Reverse T3 and therefore that typically goes unaddressed.

Keep in mind that TSH is just an 'indicator' and not the whole picture. Many doctors just rely on TSH and then patients don't benefit from proper diagnostics and treatment.

As I mentioned in another post, many people may have adequate T4 but can't convert it to the active form, or Free T3 so without knowing the "free" numbers, the results don't give the complete picture.

January 2003 by the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE), calling for doctors to "consider treatment for patients who test outside the boundaries of a narrower margin based on a target TSH level of 0.3 to 3.0."



Genova Diagnostics
Thyroid Hormone Testing

The Comprehensive Thyroid Assessment is a hormonal test which reveals imbalances that often go undetected with more limited assessments. This thyroid hormone testing measures:

Unbound levels of T4 and T3 which reflect the bioactive portion of thyroid hormone. This hormone assessment can identify not only overt hyper-and hypothyroidism, but subtle sub-clinical manifestations of thyroid dysfunction.

Reverse T3, levels of which can increase when peripheral conversion to T4 to active T3 is impaired. Peripheral thyroid imbalances may arise from nutrient shortages, heavy metal exposure, adrenal stress, enzyme deficiencies, and other chronic illness.

Thyroid antibody levels, which help gauge autoimmune response and may reflect metabolic irregularities and hypothyroidism even when TSH and T4 levels appear normal. Thyroid antibody levels may rise in response to trauma, dysbiosis, inflammation (including thyroiditis) or progressive thyroid degeneration.

Comprehensive Thyroid Assessment by Genova Diagnostics analyzes serum levels of TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3, anti-TG antibodies, and anti-TPO antibodies to assess central and peripheral thyroid function, as well as thyroid auto-immunity.

More later today.

Jackie

I bought the book Lonely Atria Fibrillation Towards a cure. Something in the introduction stood out to me Pheochromocytoma. I looked it up and it says that it is a usually benign tumour on the adrenal gland. I am not trying to over think this, but it would explain so many of my symptoms. I have often thought that I have been having adrenaline issues as I am woken up most nights with my heart racing and then hot flashes. Sometimes the hot flashes seem to take as much as an hour to subside. This is getting progressively worse, not better, as you would assume a woman in menopause would have after 10 years in menopause. I have asked my Dr for a referral to an endocrinologist.

Pheochromocytomas (or "pheos") are extremely rare. It's certainly worth a consult with an endocrinologist, but I'd be shocked if they found one. You'd be the proverbial pink zebra!

Your general practitioner can also just do a blood test for catecholemines. It'll come back in a day and suggest whether or not going down that path is worthwhile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2017 01:37PM by wolfpack.

I know, I am just grasping at straws at this point. I just feel so crappy physically.

Don't stop grasping - this thing does that to you. It would be rare but you just might find the 'it'.
--Marv

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement!

When you are light headed, drink it's of water. It will increase your blood pressure due to increased volume of blood, thus your heart will not try to pump more often to get the same amount of blood out. A cardiologist once told me that, "your pee can have NO color." Dehydration brings Afib on quickly.

That us something that I have noticed. If I don't drink enough water or don't eat properly, I will get PACS or afib.