Magnesium Issues

This may sound bizzare or heretical, but I'm wondering if Magnesium is not helpful or worse for me. I've had vagally induced afib for over 5 years now - the baseline is every 20 days in the middle of the night, with some variation and a few more flared up time frames. I've been taking magnesium the whole time, with very limited bowel tolerance - 200mg is all that has been realistic for me. A couple of years ago I tried magnesium oil, but it had set me off into crazy PVC attacks (upon using between 50 - 100mg of oil), so I stopped using it. I wondered whether magnesium itself was a problem for me, but I was too afraid to stop the oral dosage until I started this experiment 3 months ago of not using it.

I know that magnesium takes time to build up in the body, so I am aware that I may regret this experiment if I end up in a mag deficiency that is aggravating my afib. But here is what has happened so far - my baseline has been 30 days for the past 3 months (instead of 20) and I have no indication of any problem. I haven't been using this forum much recently but trust me I have read many many many posts about magnesium on it previously (and the articles about what it does,etc) - but none that I recall saying anything negative about it other than bowel issues (except for the post from a couple of days ago from Elizabeth). Any comments are welcome. Thanks,

Ralph

Hi Ralph - It's always good to question any potential connections that seem related to Afib or PACs, PVCs because while generally most of the advice offered here is based on general consensus, experience and biophysical scientific fundamentals, there is always the "individuality factor" in the mix. This type of awareness has tipped off many people to a unique circumstance happening with their body.

I'll ask a couple questions to help shed some light on potential areas that can be influential.

Have you had the ExaTest by Intracellular Diagnostics to learn your levels of intracellular electrolytes/minerals ... magnesium, calcium, sodium, potassium, phosphorous and chloride? It's difficult to speculate without knowing those values.

With your routine lab tests by your physician, has your kidney function panel been in the normal range?

You don't mention the form of magnesium you have been using, other than the "oil"... but if you could mention the form...
such as citrate, gluconate, oxide, malate, amino acid glycinate/chelate, etc.

When did you typically take your magnesium? All at once, spread throughout the day, bedtime? What was the typical total dose and when ?

As for the timing of your vagally-induced events or parasympathetic tone in the the middle of the night... did you assess the previous 8 hours or so of what you did, ate, drank prior to retiring to bed? Any connection to the AF timing and sexual activity?

Were all your events in the middle of the night?

I have more, but will stop with those. Thanks for bringing this up... it could be very useful for others who are experiencing similar parasympathetic events. When I first joined this forum, I posted that I tended to have mostly vagal-induced events and it typically happened when I would go to bed and not limited to just the middle of the night. It was suggested that I do arm exercises to try to get out of the parasympathetic tone that comes with relaxing. That was amazing and it worked.... but just pushed off the events to another time and was rather random except for the events which were triggered by hypoglycemia. I learned that I needed to have a protein and healthy fat snack about an hour before bedtime to eliminate that and it worked well for a while, too.

Jackie

Hi Jackie. I've been over this before - chelated mag, tried different dosing at different times - was last taking in morning. Never made any noticable difference. Afib always happens when sleeping. I can delay the onset by a couple of days if I sleep on my right side, but it is inevitable in a cyclic way that is about 20 days. Doesn't matter what I do between events although stress can shorten the cycle. Zero correlation with foods or even alcohol or coffee. Bloated stomach at night can trip it at 15 days or so, but not at 10 for example. There is some type of hormonal cycle happening - Hans wrote about this previously and it applies to me - the Aldostorone hypothesis. Did an exatest about 4 years ago and I was low side of normal, and my mag blood tests are usually the same. Did lots of other blood tests and nothing stands out as an issue.

But that isn't my inquiry at this point. I'm wondering if others have had negative experiences with Magnesium triggering or hastening afib. I'm a bit worried that the longer cycles I'm now having are unrelated to stopping magnesium, and that I'm going to regret this experiment if I end up mag deficient. I'll find out I guess, but I'm just looking for any input on negative experiences with mag. Remember, my original post is about stopping mag and having longer cycles between episodes. Thanks

Hi Ralph - yes - sorry ask for a review of the details that make up the big picture....my thinking behind the questions was adrenal dysfunction... that would address the aldosterone issue and how it affects potassium which then, obviously, links to afib. You can have a blood test for adrenal function to determine if there is adrenal fatigue or 'burnout.' If you are found to be low, just be aware that it's common to prescribe Florinef which is a high fluoride content which is bad news.

One of the experts on adrenal dysfunction, James L. Wilson, ND, DC, PhD, has a website with lots of good information worth checking out. [adrenalfatigue.org]
and his book on Adrenal Fatigue [www.amazon.com]

Jackie

Thanks as always Jackie for your attention. I am a bit surprised that no one else has chimed in here, but I guess everyone thinks Magnesium is working for them

One of my EP Doctors told me that he is wary of Mg, because it has made some of his Patients worse. Not sure what the circumstances in Patients were that had an issue, but I recall someone posting about it here several years ago.

First off, i do take Magnesium but only about 400mg/day, also I take it in a powder form that includes vit. C.

For myself i wouldn't take more than the 400mg., i found the following that does speak to some people having problems with Magnesium:



Signs and Symptoms of Too Much Magnesium
by MATTHEW BUSSE Last Updated: Apr 13, 2015
Signs and Symptoms of Too Much Magnesium

As the fourth most common mineral in your body, magnesium is involved in many important biological processes. Up to half of all the magnesium in your body is found in your bones, but magnesium is also involved in regulating blood pressure, blood sugar, muscle movement, nerve function, the immune system and energy metabolism. Health supplements containing magnesium are available without a prescription, but you should always consult your doctor before taking a health supplement such as magnesium because taking too much magnesium can cause severe side effects.
Gastrointestinal Effects

The earliest symptoms of magnesium toxicity are often gastrointestinal. Magnesium acts as a laxative, and diarrhea is frequently the first symptom of too much magnesium intake. Additional gastrointestinal symptoms might also occur, such as stomach upset, nausea, vomiting and abdominal cramping. Although toxicity is rare from dietary sources alone, the U.S. Institute of Medicine recommends a maximum of 350 mg of supplemental magnesium per day for adults. Doses less than this rarely cause symptoms of toxicity.
Cardiovascular Effects

Magnesium toxicity might adversely affect the cardiovascular system. Severe drops in blood pressure, also known as hypotension, have been reported after taking excessive doses of magnesium. Too much magnesium in the blood can also slow heartbeat or cause erratic heart rhythms, also known as arrhythmias. If very high levels of magnesium accumulate in the blood the heart might stop beating completely, called cardiac arrest.

Liz

I have posted some of the foods that are rich in magnesium (it is always best to get your minerals from food):

Beans, Nuts, whole grains, brown rice, whole wheat bread, green leafy veggies like Spinach, chard, pumpkin seeds, yogurt, almonds, black beans, figs, dark choc., bananas, salmon, cashews and goat cheese.

The magnesium you take should be either Magnesium chelate, magnesium citrate and Magnesiu Glycinate.

Liz

Here's a good report on hyper-magnesia symptoms and that it is relatively uncommon in people with healthy kidneys Diarrheal symptoms are common with too much magnesium, but that's the body's natural process.

Dr. Sircus explains: Toxic symptoms from increased magnesium intake are not common because the body eliminates excess amounts unless there are serious problems with kidney function.

Magnesium excess sometimes occurs when magnesium is supplemented as a medication (intravenously) because adding magnesium in very large doses in isolation from other nutrients can cause harmful effects on the body. In reality, problems with magnesium supplementation usually occur when the magnesium in the IV is given too rapidly or in too high of a dose, or both.

He elaborates on signs of magnesium excess... Continue: [drsircus.com]

Thank you all for your responses. I'll stay on this no - magnesium experiment for a while and will report back. Ralph

Hi Ralph,

Mag gives me problems too. Just 400mg mag citrate per day leads to bowel intolerance, and all forms increase ectopy for me. Strange given that my Exatest a few years ago showed my intracellular mag levels well below bottom of range (31 as against range mid-30s to early 40s IIRC).... Go figure! I just try to eat a good handful of Brazil's/almonds/walnuts every day as well as a good healthy diet in general. Just kicked alchohol (depletes mag) too. This time for good.

Best regards,

Mike F

Mike,

Congrats on the the alcohol kicking!!!

Cheers,

George

This is a great, informative thread. I've been trying to increase my Rbc-Magnesium levels for about a year....I think that taking a little too much magnesium causes diarrhea which then causes a net loss of magnesium, but also causes a loss of potassium and other electrolytes. This discussion has made me rethink my plan on trying to bring my magnesium levels up....too much seems to be creating a laxative effect, which could be making everything worse...it seems like when it comes to magnesium supplementation, too much can cause a laxative effect, which is detrimental, not helpful...

Liz, thanks for that update on bowel intolerance regarding magnesium, very, very helpful!!