ACE2 and COVID 19

There’s been a lot of controversy about whether ACE2 is good or bad with respect to COVID-19, since this seems to be the target receptor site for cellular entry.

This controversy has expanded to involve ARBs, ACEIs, and NSAIDs in the therapeutic approach. Most of this controversy has spread across social media without any basis in fact. Although WHO initially agreed that ibuprofen should not be taken if COVID-19 positive, now all of the official organizations including WHO have adopted a neutral position on all of the above.

They are awaiting the results of the University of Minnesota studies on hydroxychloroquine, some antiviral, and losartan. I believe the studies will be complete by April 1 but when the results will be made public is another question.

In the meantime I think we should give serious consideration to ACE2. I’ve already posted at length about ARBs in the AF Forum [www.afibbers.org] and won’t repeat it here, except to say that a 25 mg dose of losartan might be perfect for most normotensive LAFers after developing COVID-19 symptoms. Most of us struggle with magnesium and potassium shortfalls and ARBs not only block angiotensin II but also the downstream elevation of aldosterone, which leads to hypomagnesemia and hypokalemia. The latter is especially prominent and indicates a poor prognosis in ICU COVID-19 patients.

Soluble angiotensin-converting enzyme 2: a potential approach for coronavirus infection therapy? (3/13/2020)
[portlandpress.com]
The author of this article has a patent pending for human recombinant ACE2, which would be produced in a lab and presumably injected. I can only imagine its price tag.

I firmly believe that a combination of an ARB and ACE2 could not only deliver a knockout blow to the COVID-19 pandemic but also provide excellent therapy for numerous other diseases. I eagerly await the results of the University of Minnesota studies.

The only way that we produce circulating ACE2 is through shedding of the membrane bound component (see diagram in above article), but this requires involvement of the angiotensin II type 1 receptors which are blocked by the ARBs.

Turns out there is another way
CARDIOPULMONARY PROTECTIVE ROLE OF PROBIOTICS AND THE ACE2/ANG- (1-7)/MAS AXIS OF THE RENIN-ANGIOTENSIN SYSTEM
[ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu]
The superstar in this probiotic approach seems to be Lactobacillus paracasei (see pp 142-145).

Would love to hear Jackie’s opinion on all this.

PS I have an Inlaw in New York City that has been feeling a little under the weather for the past two weeks but without cough or fever who just turned positive for COVID-19. He has a history of hypertension but no other comorbidities. His wife is now positive also without symptoms I was amazed at the lack of symptoms until I found out he was on Losartan 50mg and she Takes 50,000 IUs of vitamin D per week for osteoporosis. Then it all became clear

Jackie posted about a product - Klaire Labs Ther-Biotic Complete that does contain Lactobacillus paracasei. William ("Wheat Belly") Davis, MD is a fan of some lacto bugs. He suggests making your own yogurt with them, adding prebiotic fibers (like inulin) to the mix and doing long (36 or more hour) fermentations. I've use milk with casein A2 to do this with a couple of specific L. reuteri strains, L. reuteri DSM 17938 and L. reuteri ATCC PTA 6475.. Making your own yogurt allows you to get a lot more bugs. In this post, Davis suggests doing this with Lactobacillus casei subspecies Shirota (found in a probiotic drink called Yakult). BTW, I've used an Instant Pot as a large yogurt maker.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 02:17PM by GeorgeN.

Gee, George, it looks like you’re just one Big Ben Franklin whose mind knows no limits, venturing far afield, leaving no leaf unturned. I could say the same about Jackie!

Your L paracasei appears to be dead.
About 10 days ago I ordered some from India, which is not scheduled for delivery until mid April. Not holding my breath.
[www.ebay.com]

Quote
PC, MD
Your L paracasei appears to be dead.

Wow, that happened fast - I updated the link for a search on the product - Klaire Labs Ther-Biotic Complete. It doesn't have the concentrated quantity that your Indian product has.

Edit, here is one product that lists L paracasei first. PRO-Dental: Probiotics for Oral & Dental Health—Freshens Breath at Its Source—Top Oral Probiotic Strains Including L. salivarius and L. paracasei

I may try to ferment some. Have to figure out something else to ferment as we both reacted to the A2 milk on our PULS test that Gundry ran on us in November. My wife's IL-16 went up 10x and mine doubled.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 02:40PM by GeorgeN.

Quote
PC, MD

Would love to hear Jackie’s opinion on all this.


Gee, George, it looks like you’re just one Big Ben Franklin whose mind knows no limits, venturing far afield, leaving no leaf unturned. I could say the same about Jackie!



PC - I'll locate some relevant info on what you've mentioned... (or so I think) I have in my 'stash'... As you may recall, I am a huge fan of probiotics because of the issues I had long ago that were helped as a result of testing to determine which were in low supply. Jackie

One final post on this thread from me.

The below link succinctly describes what’s happening with angiotensin II and COVID-19

[www.bmj.com]

The virus destroys the cells that carry the membrane bound ACE2 receptors, leading to an imbalance in the RAS with more angiotensin II.
Increased angiotensin II in diabetics and hypertensives is precisely why these are the top two comorbidities for COVID 19 and stand to gain the most from an ARB approach, esp in those homozygous for the ACE deletion (D) allele (v the insertion allele I), which would be Iranians, Italians and the Spanish. That’s why IMHO Asians have a lower COVID death rate.

That’s why children with lower ACE/ACE2 ratios do better than the elderly, who have much higher ratios.
Review Table 2
[www.cambridge.org]