The Vitamin D and Vitamin K2 Connection:

If you're taking Vitamin D, it is critical that you consider Vitamin K2 supplementation.

[info.dralexrinehart.com]



Also from a previous post on afibbers forum.

This is one of best descriptions of vitamin K2 I have read.

This last sentence is very interesting as some forum members wouldn't know how K2, or natto food for that matter, reacts with the latest NOAC's drugs:

" The relative contraindication for vitamin K2 supplements and oral anticoagulants does not extend to aspirin, platelet inhibitors such as Plavix, or blood thinners that works by other mechanisms, such as Effient (prasugrel), Xarelto, etc. These can safely be taken with vitamin K2. K2 is also well-established to be non-toxic, carrying none of the concerns sometimes associated with fat-soluble vitamins. 15"

[homedialysis.org]



There is also a great video by Kiran Kirshnan first posted by In108, see his post further down this list.

[gomegaspore.wistia.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2019 12:08PM by colindo.

Dear Colindo,

Thanks for this. I notice that Dr. Rinehart seems to set 320 mcg as the maximum daily dose of K2. I was just looking at the details of a product called Super K Elite by Life Extension, which contains 1735 mcg of K2 in various forms, along with 2000 mcg of K1. That seems like a lot!

I looked further on the Life Extension website, and found this: "Life Extension has long recommended about 1,000 mcg a day of vitamin K2, along with 9,000 mcg vitamin K1 for most people"

I wonder if you or anyone else might comment on the seemingly high dosage recommended by Life Extension, which so far as I know is an outfit with a decent reputation. Thanks!
.

Hi Lance,

I don't know is the short answer.
Steve Carr may do as he made some reference to the amount required for 100% carboxylation of all relevant proteins?...in a previous post.


GeorgeN takes 500 mcg.

"GeorgeN

I take this product: <[www.k-vitamins.com] which has 25 mg of MK-4, 0.5 mg of MK-7 (500 mcg), 5 mg of K1."

Thanks, Colindo, for your response. One thing I notice is that both the Koncentrated K that GeorgeN takes and the Super K Elite from Life Extension have modest amounts of MK7 (500 mcg and 181 mcg, respectively) but much larger amounts of MK4 (25 mg and 15 mg) and K1 (5 mg and 2 mg).

On the other hand, the MegaQUINONE K2-7 (by Microbiome Labs) product that Dr. Rinehart recomments has, in the recommended dose of 2 capsules, no MK4, 320 mcg of MK7, and only 200 mcg of K1.

Rinehart says (and I've heard Kiran Krishan say pretty much the same):

"K2-4 is only available as a synthetic supplement and metabolized quickly by the body. The longer K2-7 is non-synthetic & stays in your blood for 24-72 hours. K2-7 can be taken once daily to maintain K2 levels, whereas K2-4 is taken a few times per day.

"K2-4 may also run into problems of purity, and may contain trace amounts of unknown chemical compounds. Because K2-4 is used up more quickly by the body, it is less available to serve vitamin K needs across the entire body for the full day.

"For these reasons, I use K2-7 for supplementation."

Not sure what all this means, other than an apparent difference over the value of MK4. Who's right, I'm not able to say.

--Lance

Lance, my understanding is that K2 MK-4 comes from animals (or should...) and has a shorter half life. In this podcast, Ivor Cummins interviews Patrick Theut, who makes the product I use. I know Ivor and have met Pat at a conference. Both very bright fellows. Here is a transcript link if you don't care to listen.

George

In the Consumerlab.com (paywall) Vitamin K Supplements Review (11/23/19), I read:

"Vitamin K is fat soluble, so you'll absorb more of it when you take it with a meal that has fats or oils. Other fat-soluble vitamins, like vitamin D, can compete with its absorption, so take them at least 3 hours apart."

but also:

"Large doses of vitamin E may antagonize vitamin K, making it less effective (Traber, Nutr Rev 2008), and
there is potential concern about other fat-soluble vitamins. A laboratory experiment using intestinal cells
from mice found that uptake of vitamin K was reduced by approximately half by vitamins A, D, and E —
likely due to competition for absorption among these fat-soluble vitamins (Goncalves, Food Chem 2015).
Interestingly, vitamin K did not significantly reduce uptake of the other fat-soluble vitamins. While there do
not appear to be studies demonstrating reduced vitamin K absorption in people due to vitamin D, it may
be best to take vitamin K at least 3 hours apart from vitamin D."

I can't say how seriously to take this precaution. Has anyone heard of this K vs. D "competition" from other sources?

Lance - the MK4 just doesn't last long in the body. That's why the focus is on the K2 MK7...

The top researchers in the world are from the U. of Maastricht, Netherlands... both
Cees Vermeer, PhD and Leon Schurgers, PhD have many published papers on the topic..

There is a website describing MenaQ7 that is a result of their research as well.
[menaq7.com]
[www.drpasswater.com] - interview
[www.researchgate.net]

The most important emphasis for afibbers is that the K2 MK7 directs circulating calcium in the blood
to bone sites rather than soft tissue such as arterial calcifications.... so when one is optimizing Vitamin D levels,
the critical companion nutrient is K2 MK7. Also... as we know too much circulating calcium can fairly easy dominate over magnesium levels and which then, obviously, helps promote arrhythmia.

If you do a search for both Vermeer and Schugers, you'll find an abundance of info on the K2 MK7 topic.

Be well,
Jackie

Quote
Jackie
Lance - the MK4 just doesn't last long in the body. That's why the focus is on the K2 MK7...

Thanks, Jackie! I understand the focus on MK7. My main concern was the suggestion, on consumerlab.com, that vitamins D and K shouldn't be taken together because of the supposed "competition for absorption" between the two. But that's only one study, and I don't believe it specifies whether they are talking about K1 or K2 or what form of K2.

All best wishes,

Lance