bone and joint health

Jackie:

I know you spoke about this subject before, I have read about a couple of supplements that you posted about. Which of these do you take, I am thinking of ordering Arthoben, the other one you listed is very expensive.

Liz

Liz - First, what is you target? Bone support or joint/cartilage regeneration and support? If it's bones, then the TRF is the one to use. If mainly joints and cartilage, then... the Arthroben. I don't have either problem but use both as "preventive maintenance"...meaning I don't take the full recommended doses every day so that cuts down on the expense. I agree, they are pricey, but considering the results from various studies, it seems worth the

I use the TRF which is the bone morphogenic protein... and yes, it is expensive, but I use it every other day as I'm not trying to reverse osteoporosis... just keep maintaining the good bone density that I have and since it also works with cartilage, I like the product..

TRF 150™ contains unique bone and cartilage growth factors
called bone morphogenetic proteins (BMPs). BMPs were originally
developed in the 1990s and used by orthopedic surgeons for
bone healing and spinal fusions. Since then, millions of patients
have had bone and cartilage grown with great success. TRF 150™
is the first oral protein complex to contain these same BMPs and
associated growth factors that can facilitate the growth of new
bone and cartilage.

With the Arthroben, I use that the same way, 2 - 3 times a week, just to help maintain good joint health with the Type II Collagen which is supposed to help collagen growth or regeneration and also reduce articular cartilage degradation... ie, repair and maintenance which is commonly needed with the aging process.

Remember that vitamin D3 is important for bone health/support and you need to be in the higher recommended ranges for the 25 OH D test....contrary to what most lab values and many doctors indicate. But... along with that, it's important to use Vitamin K2 in the Menaquinone 7 form to help direct the transport of circulating calcium into bone cells and not into soft tissue like arteries and other soft tissue where it reduces elasticity. Since MK7 is soy derived, I'm not sure you can or should take that with your Graves' history. I'm sure you've already covered that aspect of bone health with Dr. Brownstein. Douglas Labs has a soy-free K2 MK7 if that's of interest.

Your great diet includes a lot of vegetables so you undoubtedly get an abundance of Vitamin K1... which works the same way; just a shorter half-life. Remember also that excessive vitamin A levels can reduce some of the benefits of Vitamin D which increases the risk of fractures... so be sure also to assess your vitamin A intake.

I hope this response is adequate; if not, send me a PM and I can try to elaborate more.

Jackie

Jackie:

Thank you for your response. Probably both---Joint cartilage and bone support, when I sit a while then get up, I am a little achy but once moving I am ok. As for 25-OH, I just had that test done a few weeks ago, I am at 43, lab values 30-100. The problem is I have gotten Aura migraines from fish oil, Dr. Brownstein tells me he has found that migraines clear up when the thyroid is ok. My thyroid reading about 4 months ago was Tsh 3.50,( I usually have it around 2.0 or a little less) and I was getting more Aura Migraines, so he is probably correct. He increased my synthroid a little and when I had my blood work a few weeks ago it dropped to 2.75. I have seen the supplement Vit D that is from Mushrooms, what are your thoughts on that?
I am inclined to trying Arthroben.

Liz

Slightly off topic but an opportune moment to mention that (to my understanding) according to Dr Joel Wallach you don't need actual osteoporosis to pinch the Th1-4 spinal nerves and experience Afib; typical age-related disc compression/loss may be sufficient (as might be evidenced by the loss of body height after the prime years of growth).

Certainly, I had chronic hiccups as a youth, back problems as a teen, then very slight loss of voice and chronic pain in the jaw as a mature adult, most likely due to peripheral neuropathies due to loss of nutrients from a gluten diet causing diarrhea.

My point is that a gluten diet and Afib may be associated for some people.

In any case, the supplements suggested by Jackie look a possible interesting addition to my bone-health regime.

I forgot to mention a lifetime of tinnitus, not severe, but the very high pitch is always there -- Aspirin makes it much worse. Strangely enough, the tinnitus vanished one day in the distant past for 1 hour. It took me a while to work out what seemed so different. It was strange to realize the air did not 'sing' like a bunch of mosquitoes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2017 02:55PM by phill.

Liz - First - I'm not familiar with vitamin D sourced from mushrooms. Did a quick search and found this report which has many interesting points but seems to discredit mushrooms as a substantial source. ?? [www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com]

Now - on the 25 OH D testing. Lab range values are just that. The therapeutic/beneficial values are typically a different range and depend on physicians looking at studies and values that show ranges and equivalent symptom improvements.
Your 43 test value is on the low side of what most doctors are currently recommending. The Vitamin D Council recommends 50 ng/ml. But, many integrative/functional medicine practitioners like to see 60 - 70 as minimum. It's known that when you have low D values, muscle pain and joint aches are common.

(You may remember my story about having muscle pain and weakness and being treated for fibromyalgia to no avail... but when I changed to a FM MD and had the 25 OH D test, the results were something like 18. Once I began vigorous supplementation with Vitamin D3 - the cholecalciferol form, I started feeling alive again. That was back in the 'dark ages' of medicine and the Rheumatologist I consulted (back than) was definitely not conversant with testing for Vit. D deficiency as a cause although he didn't hesitate to order a muscle biopsy. So, my point is that while I started to feel human once my lab value was 40 ng/ml, it wasn't until I was stabilized at 70 that I was consistently pain free. GeorgeN recently mentioned that his doctor recommends keeping his levels around 100.)

So it could be that all you need to do is increase your 25 hydroxy Vitamin D levels and your pain issues may go away.

In any event, the Arthroben can be beneficial for osteoarthritis, it may not help if the cause is a too low Vitamin D level.

Now, additionally, there is a Type II Collagen product that is excellent for promoting joint health, if that's of interest. The patented and tested version is by BioCell Collagen(R) that helps promote joint comfort and mobility, helps renew cartilage, and promotes skin, joint, tendon and ligament health via nutritional support of connective tissue. I've begun using that and less of the TRF and eventually, will probably just maintain with BioCell and stop the Arthroben. If you'd like to read more, I have a 'white paper' on the properties, benefits, etc... I can send you by email.... just send me a PM so we can connect. Start here as an intro: [www.vitacost.com] and here's another brand. [www.vitacost.com]

Just remember to check for the registered trademark on labels of any products as there are many wannabe products.

Hope this helps.
Jackie

Hi Phill - I totally agree about the GF diet. There is substantial history by now proving that many ailments previously thought to be caused from another source, are actually reactions to gluten/gliaden sensitivities. Since virtually everyone is exposed to that at an early age, the problems compound dramatically with time because no one is suspect... or haven't been. Fortunately, in the last 10 years or so, the science is there to support the need for testing and dietary changes. Similar, with dairy proteins.

It makes perfect sense that there are other causes for nerve impingement than disintegration of the vertebrae.

Thanks for your information.

Jackie

Jackie:

The bio-cell sounds good to me, I was interested in a collagen formula, i will try that. Doesn't sound like mushrooms are very good for providing vit. D. i have always been a little low in vit. D, I am outdoors a lot in the Spring, Summer and fall months so I should get adequate amounts of vit. D. I live in Michigan and we don't have very much sun in the winter, i do have carlsons liquid vit. D as drops, 4,000 mg. a drop, one day I took 2 drops and 2 hours later I had and Aura M., so I am a little reluctant on taking some vitamins.

I know definitely that Beta-Caroteine causes Aura Migraines for me, so I stay away from that.

I do take a supplement from Dr. Brownstein called Linbex, which is for bones, but I take only 1 tab/day, the bottle says to take 3 tabs. I have cut down on taking supplements because i was getting Oral migraines, thinking that some of them may be causing the Auras.

Hopefully by increasing my thyroid Meds a little will help my auras---i know that Magnesim is of help as well, I have been taking it but can't take much more than 400mg.

Thanks for your help
Liz

Liz - The Limbex has good ingredients for muscle aches and arthritis pain. It does contain shellfish so if you are sensitive, that may be a contributor to your aura/migraines.

With your sensitivities, I'd just continue as you are to limit the variety of supplements so that you are migraine free.
I know those are awful.

Take care and be well,
Jackie