Flu Shot

It's that time of the year again when we get bombarded with the ads.

Saw some recent articles (1) going against the CDC's standard advice to get vaccinated, and (2) claiming that the true reduction in risk of the getting the flu is hugely exaggerated by the media.

Would love to hear from the group on this. Thank you.

/L

Hi Larry - You can probably guess my response before I write it. I don't get flu shots.

20* years ago when I worked as a dental hygienist and was exposed continually everyone's mouth bugs from the continual aerosols, I did get the vaccines, but that didn't always keep me flu-free. After AF forced my early retirement, I eventually decided not to get the shot but rather focused on maintaining a healthy immune system support protocol and that has kept me cold and flu free ... coming up this season..no colds for 16 years and no flu for 17 years.

As you know from previous years and the result of flu shots, they start making it early to have a supply and can only calculate a 'best guess' scenario as to which flu strain will dominate the season...and that isn't always accurate. I'd rather my immune system be healthy enough to resist all types of cold and flu and not just for flu season. Further, I'm not willing to risk the added chemicals included in the vaccines.

Sign me ....
Health nut. ; )

Jackie

Hahaha... yup, I kinda expected that, J. ;>)

Thinking of holding out this season to see what other reputable research comes out clarifying the situation.

Besides hand-washing, home hygiene, good diet, not overdoing it physically, relaxation / meditation, sleep consistency, antioxidants, and trying to stay away from sick folks... I'm sure I'm not the only one here that would love to hear your further ideas / suggestions on this. Thank you!

/L

Larry,

I keep my vitamin D (25OHD test) level high. Our doc wants our level between 80 & 100 ng/mL. For me, this requires 10,000 IU/day of D3. As a co-supplement, I take 200 mcg/day of K2 MK7.

George

Also periodic fasting/refeeding. See: <[www.youtube.com]
and more on these cycles:
<[www.youtube.com]
<[www.youtube.com]
and on fasting & metabolism is a 25+ part series starting here: <[intensivedietarymanagement.com]

George,

Can you take vitamin D3 with K2MK7 when taking NattoZyme,, a natural blood thinner?

Marsh

George, Does taking all these supplements cause you any Nausea? I take approx 1000-1200 mg a day of Magnesium and it will make me nauseated. Even at this level, My stools are not loose.
I take approx 800- 1000 mg of the now brand of Magnesium Citrate and approx. 300 mg of Doctors Best Chelated Magnesium. I spread out the dosage throughout the day and take the magnesium with a meal or snack but the Nausea is there.

I need the Magnesium Citrate to help with my constipation due to medications I take and the levels I am at are working "well".

Thanks for any insight about nausea and supplements.

5 mg Valium a day as needed.
20 mg Prozac daily
15 mg Prevacid a day
60 cc shot of Testosterone Cypionate every 10 days. Testosterone is low due to schedule two narcotics.
.5 mg Arimidex 2x a week to keep Estrogen levels in check. T shots can cause rise in Estrogen.

100 mg Metoprolol ER 1x a day
25 mg HydroDiuril fluid pill 1x a day every 2 days.
Neurontin 900mg a day (for Neuropathic pain IC/CPPS)
800 mg of Magnesium daily . Different types
81 mg aspirin 1X a day. Heart Doctor order due to stent installed in Jan. 2012.
2.5 mg Eliquis 2X a day

Miralax 1x a day for constipation issues. I have tried so many different methods for Constipation since 2008. Fiber is in my diet but to much Fiber really Constipates me.




25 mg/hcr Fentanyl.patch changed every 2 days

1st ablation done Feb. 27, 2014 for Long term persistent AFIB Dr. Natale
2nd Ablation done June 16,2016 Dr. Natale LAA isolated

Smackman - Do you take your magnesium with or after meals? If not, that may help with the nausea.

The other form of magnesium you should be using to help alkalize your system and keep your cells 'happy'... is the magnesium bicarbonate ion from the homemade Waller Water... or WW. Alkalizing continually keeps us healthy.
The long drug list you take keeps your system acidic, so I'd start with low doses daily added to your drinking water and increase until you find your comfort zone.

Be well,
Jackie

Marsh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> George,
>
> Can you take vitamin D3 with K2MK7 when taking
> NattoZyme,, a natural blood thinner?
>
> Marsh

I don't think the D3 should be any problem and am not aware of an issue with the NattoZyme. I believe the MK7 version of K2 comes from the natto bacillus and the NattoZyme may contain K2. So additional may not be needed.

George

smackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> George, Does taking all these supplements cause
> you any Nausea? I take approx 1000-1200 mg a day
> of Magnesium and it will make me nauseated. Even
> at this level, My stools are not loose.
> I take approx 800- 1000 mg of the now brand of
> Magnesium Citrate and approx. 300 mg of Doctors
> Best Chelated Magnesium. I spread out the dosage
> throughout the day and take the magnesium with a
> meal or snack but the Nausea is there.
>
> I need the Magnesium Citrate to help with my
> constipation due to medications I take and the
> levels I am at are working "well".
>

Smack,

Dosing for magnesium is highly individual. I've never experienced nausea with magnesium, even up to 5.5 grams/day, so can't give advice here. A thought would be to experiment with different forms and see if you get a different response with different forms. I've used almost every chemical form and they all work for me.

George

Hi Larry - Mostly, it's the vitamin D level. I typically take 10,000 IUs daily starting in September through May when I can get out in the sun again. Along with that I use at least 200 mcg of the K2 MK7 for the calcium issue. I always take the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K with a dose of liquid Omega 3 essential fatty acids to help insure absorption.

Additionally, I also use the Lipospheric form of vitamin C 1 packet daily and if l am around someone sick or in a meeting with a lot of people coughing, then I always add more of the LipoC for several days. One packet delivers 1,000 mg of the liposphericl C which is a more potent form. (I never travel without a stash, either).

The substitution equivalencies (Lipo C equivalent to C as ascorbic acid
1,000 mg = 3,000 – 4,000 mg powder
2,000 mg = 8,000 – 10,000 mg powder
3,000 mg = 12,000 – 18,000 mg powder…. (page 133 of Primal Panacea)

Typically, no bowel tolerance issues or stomach distress.

Lipspheric Vitamin C from LivOn Labs [www.livonlabs.com]

I also am a big fan of Essential oils by Young Living and use their Thieves line of antimicrobials when appropriate..
hand sanitizer gel, lozenges and oral spray. Kills bugs quickly. I always have them handy.

Those are the basics. I'm smart about wiping down equipment at the gym before and after use. Staying away from coughing people but I'm not paranoid as I know my regimen is successful.

I take a lot of other nutritional supplements targeting other systems such as thyroid and adrenals just so I stay balanced and healthy. So far, so good.

Be well,
Jackie

Jackie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smackman - Do you take your magnesium with or
> after meals? If not, that may help with the
> nausea.
>
> The other form of magnesium you should be using to
> help alkalize your system and keep your cells
> 'happy'... is the magnesium bicarbonate ion from
> the homemade Waller Water... or WW. Alkalizing
> continually keeps us healthy.
> The long drug list you take keeps your system
> acidic, so I'd start with low doses daily added to
> your drinking water and increase until you find
> your comfort zone.
>
> Be well,
> Jackie

I take the magnesium with my meals. For instance, 200 mg of chelated magnesium with breakfast. 400 mg of Magnesium Citrate with Lunch then another 100 mg of Chelated magnesium and 200 mg of Magnesium Citrate with Dinner.
I need the Magnesium Citrate for bowel movement which is a small amount in reality.
I did the WW water for over 2 years. It never kept me out of AFIB so I back off of it because it does have a "wang" taste to it. The PH of my drinking water is 8.2 and my urine is not in a acidic state according to the strips I use; Neither is my saliva. I checked all this out according to instructions given to me maybe a year ago. I am in a Alkaline state.

Smackman... Good that your drinking water is already alkaline. You may have mentioned that and I've forgotten.
Sorry. But there is a caution on becoming too alkaline as well... so monitor with your strips periodically.
The focus of slightly alkaline pH is outlined in many posts here as well as the old book, "Alkalize or Die" by Theodore Baroody. It didn't prevent my Afib, either, but it certainly helped avoid a lot of other issues from an acidic pH.

Take care.
Jackie

Jackie or George,

Can you take vitamin D3 with K2MK7 when taking NattoZyme, a natural blood thinner? I have read that one can't take K2 with a blood thinner like warfin.

Marsh

Sorry - my question was answered. I didn't see it at first. Thanks, George!

Marsh

By the way, NattoZyme does not contain K2. I looked up the product on line.

My dear friend who has periods of afib seems to have more episodes when she is sick with a cold. Does this happen to others?

I agree with Jackie--I never have had a flu shot.

Anyone I know who had a flu shot, shortly thereafter, got the flu!

So, Larry & Pamela: here's an alternative (holistic) to flu shots:

Instead of flu shots, I take (if I feel a cold or anything coming on) an over-the-counter homeopathic remedy (sub-lingually--that is, under the tongue) called Oscillococcinum (pronounced Oss-Sill-Oh-Cox-Seen-Um), and this remedy boosts one's immune system! This is available at both health food stores, and, at pharmacies.

When I did get the flu (only twice in my life), I took the Oscillococcinum, and had no aches, but I did have to stay in bed for a few days, drinking liquids and sleeping--but I think the Oscillo. shortened the duration of those 2 flu's.

My husband, who has a-fib (and is considering an ablation, in the Denver area), also likes the Oscillococcinum, and he never gets flu shots now, either.

Since the "carrier" of the homeopathic ingredients of Oscillo. is milk sugar (lactose), anyone who is Lactose intolerant, can take some Lactase (brand name Lactaid), by mouth, to prevent Lactose intolerance symptoms (digestive upsets) from the Oscillo.

Carol Sidofsky (cell: 970-53-15000, fsds@rkymtnhi.com, [cantbreathesuspectvcd.com] )

Thanks Carol - I originally used Oscillo many years ago and thought it was very effective. Once my vitamin D levels were optimized, I didn't have need to use.... but it's a good reminder to keep some on hand...so thank you.

Jackie

I have been taken the flu shot at least 10+ years every year with Zero issues. I have not had the Flu either. Maybe The wife and I are lucky but I am not afraid of preventive health care especially when it comes to the Flu.
I had a Rough battle with the Flu in the 1990's. Very sick. It is all about choices.

Thanks for your kind words, Jackie! Oscillo is a great homeopathic remedy! As you said you do, we also take Vitamin D3, daily, too (We began taking it, after I found I was low in my D3 level). A reason to avoid being near anyone who recently had a flu shot, is the "shedding" possibility, done unintentionally by vaccinated folks, onto un-vaccinated folks.

Ive had the flu very few times after NOT getting a flu shot. When I read that mercury levels are 100 times higher than the allowed fda limits in one shot, I chose my poison, a very treatable sickness with little effect on my afib, or a shot that adds more heavy metals to my system and only promises 6 days of sickness vs 7 days.

Forwarding "thank you's" to everyone that chimed in!

E-Z for me to up the D3 and C, Jackie (and George), since I already supplement with them. The Oscillo sounds real interesting, Carol -- appreciate your recommendations.

Even enjoyed learning about those unique diets, George. Wow... imagine if we could regain the robustness our systems had when we were in our primes... and doing so without taking the ingestion of chemicals... truly amazing! Have to read more about this.

/L

Hi Larry - I came across this research that makes it important to understand potential risks with flu shots for afibbers... as indicated below.. .

Jackie

Abstract


Inflammation-related effects of adjuvant influenza A vaccination on platelet activation and cardiac autonomic function.
Lanza GA1, Barone L, Scalone G, Pitocco D, Sgueglia GA, Mollo R, Nerla R, Zaccardi F, Ghirlanda G, Crea F.
J Intern Med. 2011 Jan;269(1):118-25. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2796.2010.02285.x. Epub 2010 Oct 22.

BACKGROUND:
Inflammation, platelet reactivity and cardiac autonomic dysfunction increase the risk of cardiovascular events, but the relationships between these prognostic markers are poorly defined. In this study, we investigated the effect of an inflammatory stimulus (influenza A vaccine) on platelet activation and cardiac autonomic function.

METHODS:
We measured serum C-reactive protein (CRP) and interleukin-6 levels, monocyte-platelet aggregates (MPAs) and monocyte/platelet receptor expression before and after adjuvant influenza A vaccination in 28 patients with type II diabetes (mean age 62.1 ± 8 years, 18 men). Twenty-four-hour Holter electrocardiogram was recorded 24 h before and after vaccination; heart rate variability (HRV) was assessed as a measure of cardiac autonomic function.

RESULTS:
Inflammatory cytokines, MPA formation and monocyte/platelet receptor expression increased after vaccination. CRP was 2.6 ± 2.8 and 7.1 ± 5.7 mg L⁻¹ 48 h before and after vaccination, respectively (P < 0.0001). HRV parameters decreased after vaccination compared to baseline, with very low-frequency amplitude showing the most significant change (34.6 ± 11.8 and 31.0 ± 10.2 ms 48 h before and after vaccination, respectively; P = 0.002). A significant correlation was found between percentage changes in CRP levels and in most HRV variables, with the most significant correlations between changes in CRP levels and changes in standard deviation of all normal RR intervals (r = 0.43; P = 0.02).

CONCLUSIONS:
Together with an inflammatory reaction, influenza A vaccine induced platelet activation and sympathovagal imbalance towards adrenergic predominance. Significant correlations were found between CRP levels and HRV parameters, suggesting a pathophysiological link between inflammation and cardiac autonomic regulation. The vaccine-related platelet activation and cardiac autonomic dysfunction may transiently increase the risk of cardiovascular events.

© 2010 The Association for the Publication of the Journal of Internal Medicine.

PMID: 20964738 DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2796.2010.02285.x [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free full text [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]